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[Andrew Watts]

Hi Guys,

I need to mic up a 7 piece kit - kick, snare, 3 toms, 2 floor toms, 3 crashes, ride and hats.  I really can only afford 5 channels on my 16 channel desk.

I have read that miking the kick and snare and then using a couple of full range condensers as overheads can deal with the toms and cymbals.  Not sure how successful this would be for live with bleed etc.  The band plays pop and stage volume is not bad.

What are your thoughts and suggestions. I have an Audix D6 and SM57, but don't have any condensers at the moment.

Thanks

Andrew

[luis Markson]

It will depend the style of music being played and the size of the venue.

How much of the snare is being heard acoustically? Does the genre (e.g dance, techno) rely on hats? How many vocal mics are in front the the kit? Do any any of the performers need something specific in their monitors?

I've found kick, snare and overheads acceptable for jazz, but would have been craving some control over the toms for rock...

[Jeff Bankston]

well you need more channels. but since you aint got em i suggest > 1 mic on hh, 1 mic on snare , 1 mic on bass , 1 mic between the 2 floor toms and 1 mic on the middle rack tom. forget miking the other cymblas , there should be enough bleed over for them to be somewhat heard. the trick is the rack toms. if the drummer is willing to use just 2 rack toms then you can split them with 1 mic. i am a rock drummer ben playing 40+ years and own my own pa. a foto of my home practice kit.

[Andrew Watts]

Thanks guys,
I thought using a couple of overheads might just simplfy things.
Here's what I am now thinking -
Audix D6 Kick
SM57 snare (angled to pick up the hats a bit)
Sennheiser E604 on the first tom, another shared on the second and third tom and a shared one on the floor toms.
I wont mic the cymbals. He has the cymbals pretty low, so I assume the other mic will pick them up fine.

[Bob Leonard]

Thanks guys,
I thought using a couple of overheads might just simplfy things.
Here's what I am now thinking -
Audix D6 Kick
SM57 snare (angled to pick up the hats a bit)
Sennheiser E604 on the first tom, another shared on the second and third tom and a shared one on the floor toms.
I wont mic the cymbals. He has the cymbals pretty low, so I assume the other mic will pick them up fine.

Andrew,
This arrangement should work well. Have the drummer warm up and make your final adjustments then.
 
Also, you don't need a condenser for overheads, just a good mic (57s and 58s need not apply). My choice is either a Heil drum kit for everything or Heil PR-30s for the overheads if you don't use the kit. A pair of PR-30s will do the job just fine.

[Scott Bolt]

I am not a big fan of a 57 on the snare.... to harsh for my taste.  I really like the e604's (have several myself) for toms and snare .... but then, I like a puncher beefier snare than many.

Love the D6 (use that myself too).

I use my e604's close miced to each tom and they really sound fantastic.... but I also gate them with a Presonus ACP88.

If you have a frequency dependent gate on them, you could likely back them up and only get the gate to open when a tom is hit (vs the snare or a cymbal).

I am a true believer in gating your drum mic's.  It really cleans up the mix and provides a perceived punch to the drums.

[David Parker]

Hi Guys,

I need to mic up a 7 piece kit - kick, snare, 3 toms, 2 floor toms, 3 crashes, ride and hats.  I really can only afford 5 channels on my 16 channel desk.

I have read that miking the kick and snare and then using a couple of full range condensers as overheads can deal with the toms and cymbals.  Not sure how successful this would be for live with bleed etc.  The band plays pop and stage volume is not bad.

What are your thoughts and suggestions. I have an Audix D6 and SM57, but don't have any condensers at the moment.

Thanks

Andrew

overheads wont pick up the toms well.

[Chuck Simon]

well you need more channels. but since you aint got em i suggest > 1 mic on hh, 1 mic on snare , 1 mic on bass , 1 mic between the 2 floor toms and 1 mic on the middle rack tom. forget miking the other cymblas , there should be enough bleed over for them to be somewhat heard. the trick is the rack toms. if the drummer is willing to use just 2 rack toms then you can split them with 1 mic. i am a rock drummer ben playing 40+ years and own my own pa. a foto of my home practice kit.

Great suggestion.  It happens to be exacty the way I have handled the same situation.  In most small/medium rooms O.H. are not needed, but I like a mic on the hat.

And I agree about the gates.  I gate the kick and toms.

[Ned Ward]

We just finished doing 24-track demos of our band for a bunch of songs. Drum Kit is a good DW kit with 4 rack toms, single kick, snare, hat and cymbals.
Tracked as follows:
B52 - Kick
i5 - Snare
cheap kit audix condenser - hihat
Cheap kit audix condenser  - OH
D2 - hi tom
D2 - mid hi tom
D4 - mid low tom
D6 - low tom

Recorded at 24/48 to an Alesis HDR24 and then I dumped it into Pro Tools.

Adage of "less is more" is definitely apparent. The hihat mic was next to useless; while I could chalk it up to a poor Audix condenser, the same condenser as an OH mic picked up the hat, cymbals and toms perfectly. And this was on a stage with 2 guitar amps and a bass amp blasting. Ended up mixing without the HH mic and the 4 tom mics padded way, way down.

If I had to do it again, I'd do Kick, snare and 2 overheads, using my Pro37's instead of the lesser kit Audix, and would substitute our D6 for kick instead of the B52. This works for our type of music (80's pop, 90's rock) but you may feel the need for more tom coverage, if so, you could do as you suggest.

I wouldn't change coverage of the snare mic to pick up the hat, you'll get plenty of it in other mics and cymbals tend to cut through.

[David Parker]

If I had to do it again, I'd do Kick, snare and 2 overheads, using my Pro37's instead of the lesser kit Audix, and would substitute our D6 for kick instead of the B52. This works for our type of music (80's pop, 90's rock) but you may feel the need for more tom coverage, if so, you could do as you suggest.

I've done that live outdoors where there was no interaction with walls, ceilings, etc, with good results. Also, recording I've done that with good results. I've tried it in small live settings with terrible results, the toms don't cut through.

[Mike McNany]

Thanks guys,
I thought using a couple of overheads might just simplfy things.
Here's what I am now thinking -
Audix D6 Kick
SM57 snare (angled to pick up the hats a bit)
Sennheiser E604 on the first tom, another shared on the second and third tom and a shared one on the floor toms.
I wont mic the cymbals. He has the cymbals pretty low, so I assume the other mic will pick them up fine.

Andrew,
I, too, think your plan is a good one for limited channels UNLESS you can throw a sub-mixer in. Me, I'm getting lazy as a drummer who sets up the PA and just run a D6 in the kick and a SINGLE OH condensor mic most of the time. Outdoors, I mic each drum and run 2 OH and a HH condensor. In the past I used to run every drum miced and let all the massed drum mics and the front line vocal mics pick up the cymbals (before I got lazy).

[Ned Ward]

If I had to do it again, I'd do Kick, snare and 2 overheads, using my Pro37's instead of the lesser kit Audix, and would substitute our D6 for kick instead of the B52. This works for our type of music (80's pop, 90's rock) but you may feel the need for more tom coverage, if so, you could do as you suggest.

I've done that live outdoors where there was no interaction with walls, ceilings, etc, with good results. Also, recording I've done that with good results. I've tried it in small live settings with terrible results, the toms don't cut through.

This was indoors in a 700 person hotel ballroom, 18' ceilings, on a 2' stage. Again, for our type of music the drummer uses the toms sparingly, so it works for us. If you have the extra channels to spare, I'd say why not? With 24 channels of recording, we could afford to mic every tom, and even threw in a room mic placed back at mix position which when compressed added a nice dose of reality to the recordings.

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