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Multi-Zone Mix and Distribution

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Peter Kowalczyk:
I installed a hybrid Live / BG system at a Bar-Venue space several years ago.  There is a house Background Music system in four zones (Main Dining, Outdoor Beer Garden, Bathrooms, Kitchen) and a Stage PA with L/R/Sub/Fill outputs, each driving a powered speaker.

This space is primarily a bar; with a program of events ranging from community fundraisers, movies, bingo, and live music.  There is no skilled audio engineer on staff.  There is a house console (two actually - a basic one and a more sophisticated one, both analog).  The bar staff have been trained on basic setup and operation, but bands are advised that they'll have to mix themselves.  Many bands choose to bring their own console for the sake of familiarity.

The stage PA is managed by an Ashly 4.8 system processor, and accepts a stereo LR mix.  That mix is sent to the four Stage PA speakers, as well as to the Background Music system, where it can be sent to any of the four house zones, e.g. the beer garden and bathrooms.  The BG system is driven by a Crown CDI Drivecore amp with an IOS app that enables source-selection and level control over the four zones.

I received a comment from the venue GM that with a band on stage, the level at the Outdoor Beer Garden was 'barely audible.'  When I went to check it out, it was clear that it was functioning to spec, but that the mix didn't have any drums and amps; only vocals and DI content.  Naturally - its a small space, and anything with substantial acoustic volume isn't reinforced in the PA, and thus isn't sent through the processor to the BG music system.

Now, its clear that the pro approach would be to create a separate mix to drive BG system, which can emphasize those loud-stage-volume sources that aren't present in the main mix.  The first version of this system included a separate 'house' input, sent directly to the house BG system, intended to be driven by an Aux, for this purpose.  However, that approach was either too complex (without a skilled engineer most of the time) or not-even-possible (with the cheap basic consoles provided by most bands), so we decided to simplify and derive the house send from the master L/R input.

So, now I'm pondering options for how to flesh out the mix for the beer garden in a way that doesn't burden unskilled users with too much complexity.  My leading concept is hang a mic or two over the stage, and matrix them into the beer garden output along with the stage mix.

Since there isn't actually a budget for any of this and it's pretty unlikely any changes will be made, this is really more of a thought experiment. 

So more to the point, how would you DESIGN a similar system in the future to avoid this problem?

[ seems like another classic engineering triangle in play:  Capable - Simple to use - Inexpensive to build... Choose two ]

Thanks for any insights....

Dave Garoutte:

--- Quote from: Peter Kowalczyk on June 22, 2024, 01:44:28 PM ---I installed a hybrid Live / BG system at a Bar-Venue space several years ago.  There is a house Background Music system in four zones (Main Dining, Outdoor Beer Garden, Bathrooms, Kitchen) and a Stage PA with L/R/Sub/Fill outputs, each driving a powered speaker.

This space is primarily a bar; with a program of events ranging from community fundraisers, movies, bingo, and live music.  There is no skilled audio engineer on staff.  There is a house console (two actually - a basic one and a more sophisticated one, both analog).  The bar staff have been trained on basic setup and operation, but bands are advised that they'll have to mix themselves.  Many bands choose to bring their own console for the sake of familiarity.

The stage PA is managed by an Ashly 4.8 system processor, and accepts a stereo LR mix.  That mix is sent to the four Stage PA speakers, as well as to the Background Music system, where it can be sent to any of the four house zones, e.g. the beer garden and bathrooms.  The BG system is driven by a Crown CDI Drivecore amp with an IOS app that enables source-selection and level control over the four zones.

I received a comment from the venue GM that with a band on stage, the level at the Outdoor Beer Garden was 'barely audible.'  When I went to check it out, it was clear that it was functioning to spec, but that the mix didn't have any drums and amps; only vocals and DI content.  Naturally - its a small space, and anything with substantial acoustic volume isn't reinforced in the PA, and thus isn't sent through the processor to the BG music system.

Now, its clear that the pro approach would be to create a separate mix to drive BG system, which can emphasize those loud-stage-volume sources that aren't present in the main mix.  The first version of this system included a separate 'house' input, sent directly to the house BG system, intended to be driven by an Aux, for this purpose.  However, that approach was either too complex (without a skilled engineer most of the time) or not-even-possible (with the cheap basic consoles provided by most bands), so we decided to simplify and derive the house send from the master L/R input.

So, now I'm pondering options for how to flesh out the mix for the beer garden in a way that doesn't burden unskilled users with too much complexity.  My leading concept is hang a mic or two over the stage, and matrix them into the beer garden output along with the stage mix.

Since there isn't actually a budget for any of this and it's pretty unlikely any changes will be made, this is really more of a thought experiment. 

So more to the point, how would you DESIGN a similar system in the future to avoid this problem?

[ seems like another classic engineering triangle in play:  Capable - Simple to use - Inexpensive to build... Choose two ]

Thanks for any insights....

--- End quote ---
Can you add an ambient mic to capture the actual sound coming off the stage, and feed that to the BG system?

Adam Kane:

--- Quote from: Dave Garoutte on June 22, 2024, 04:51:39 PM --- Can you add an ambient mic to capture the actual sound coming off the stage, and feed that to the BG system?

--- End quote ---

We did exactly this in what sounds like a similar venue. We hung two small condenser mics about 30' out from the stage and provided controls for the staff to mix them in as needed. Works well for what it is and everyone was happy.

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