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[Bob Stone]

You skipped over the insurance part.


Not occupying any moral high ground, personally I don't work in the lounge space.  We have a few clients that do play a couple of lounge dates a year and we do cover them as part of the relationship, we don't do them at a loss either. 


I was speaking up for the folks that do work in that space.  It sucks to have to compete against someone who doesn't care about profit and subsidizes their operation either with cash or equity.

You skipped over reading the insurance part...

Yup, life sucks...and if someone wants to go have fun with PA equipment for pennies to make theirs suck less, I'm all for it. Not everything in life has to be good business, there is value to be had in other ways. Volunteer work using professional skills can be very fulfilling, no different than a carpenter helping to build affordable shelter on the weekend or a lawyer doing pro-bono work for a cause they support. You're basically saying the only way someone should get value with PA equipment is in a monetary way and if they don't, they should forfeit their right to do so because someone else won't get paid?

[Scott Holtzman]

You skipped over reading the insurance part...

Yup, life sucks...and if someone wants to go have fun with PA equipment for pennies to make theirs suck less, I'm all for it. Not everything in life has to be good business, there is value to be had in other ways. Volunteer work using professional skills can be very fulfilling, no different than a carpenter helping to build affordable shelter on the weekend or a lawyer doing pro-bono work for a cause they support. You're basically saying the only way someone should get value with PA equipment is in a monetary way and if they don't, they should forfeit their right to do so because someone else won't get paid?

RE: Insurance, you're right, I did skip it.  Probably need to go to bed. 


Volunteer work I am on the fence about, especially when it changes the perception of what is required to put on the event. 


I have never seen the Sunbelt come out and donate generators and tow motors, never seen Bob's bring porta-potty's at no cost.  The tent people want full tilt boogie.


Why should the sound vendors devalue themselves?  I don't get it.  It costs what it costs and that's what people should pay.  We are unique in being  scared to ask for a days pay.

[Bob Stone]

RE: Insurance, you're right, I did skip it.  Probably need to go to bed. 


Volunteer work I am on the fence about, especially when it changes the perception of what is required to put on the event. 


I have never seen the Sunbelt come out and donate generators and tow motors, never seen Bob's bring porta-potty's at no cost.  The tent people want full tilt boogie.


Why should the sound vendors devalue themselves?  I don't get it.  It costs what it costs and that's what people should pay.  We are unique in being  scared to ask for a days pay.

If they choose to, that's their choice. The events I have been regularly bringing my rig out to for basically nothing is two summer charity BBQ's that my day job puts on each year. I've also used it at a couple block parties and movie nights over the years with my neighbourhood. In the BBQ case, they would just not have any PA equipment, so no music or mics. With the neighbourhood stuff they'd just have whatever set of home speakers someone has. I do it because as I mentioned, they are things I would attend anyway and just bring me some joy to use my equipment. I've also brought my rig out for a couple shows in the last year at a local youth music center, those I only get a few hundred bucks for - not my full rate, but it's again for a good cause and as a favour to a really good friend (which he has done things in return for me consistently over the years) who runs the shows. When I do corporate events (my most regular shows these days), I'm getting normal going rate for the area...but those aren't fun, nor would I be going anyway.

I've been doing this for 20+ years, I'm not learning on these shows (per the original start of this discussion), but am doing it for my enjoyment of the events and is not something I'm going to give up anytime soon just because there's the perception that it might eat someone else's lunch.

[Tim McCulloch]

I have a stagehand that fell off a riser on a Van Halen local call.  Turned out he didn't have workmans comp in that state.  My hand is wondering who is going to pay for his rehab?

The employer.  Who is paying the local crew?  There's your employer.  Oh, they don't have work comp?  Lawsuit is the only option.  And I'd be looking to my state attorney general and dept of labor, as I'm pretty sure such employers are required to have work comp or demonstrated financial responsibility.

[Frank Koenig]

A note on hobbyists and insurance: So long as I don't accept payment for my hobby activities, sound or other, I'm covered under my liability umbrella. The moment I take one dime I would need a separate liability policy for my "business". This is my understanding of my situation, anyway.

We've had the should-hobbyists-be-allowed-to-exist discussion before and I'm not going to reargue that right now but to say yes they should.

--Frank

[Scott Bolt]

Thank you Scott!

I’ve decided, with the help from this forum, to not buy any more gear until I learn the trade better.

Current tops are KW153 from QSC and I will run them full range.  K12.2 for monitors.  I have one SM58, which can get me thru the comedy show, and might borrow or rent a small mixer like the Alto you recommended or a Yamaha MG10XU for starters

I have a truck, 5x8 utility trailer, and some round pole mic stands.  Was tempted to do one QLX-D with SM58 capsule but agree, the skill level < gear level at this moment.

With regards to the live band, it’s one drummer (6 mics), one keyboardist, one or two vocals, and a few self contained players with their own amps (guitar) and maybe even a synth fed into the PA.

I’m months away from that, so am taking the time to learn the ropes before I get too far in.  As of yesterday, a live sound guy of 20 years that heard my mixes with no experience said “not bad for a beginner”.  He could hear everything, no feedback, yes I cheated by cutting too much HF overall and using comps to account for the talent’s variations, but overall OK he said.

As mentioned in my other thread, I’ll be recording everything with a camcorder on a tripod at FOH so true professionals can critique my mixes.

Until then, I’m ready for the comedy show (only acquisition was a round base mic stand) and even if I can’t source a mixer, my K12.2 and KW153 have mic pre’s.

Just need to set levels on stage which means no remote adjustments can be made.  Aside from that, thanks for all the suggestions and advice for this newbie.

I look forward to growing my skills and posting back soon!

Tsun

Hi Tsun,

The KW153 is a pretty good speaker; however, it is painfully heavy, large, and can't be put on a pole over a sub.  All of this combines to make it a PITA for anyone that isn't doing EITHER a fixed install, or someone that has the budget for a road crew.  Additionally, it really isn't a great full band solution without subs ..... and if you have subs ..... why do you need 15" 3 way tops?  The answer is, you don't.

So, with that in mind, your KW12.2's aren't a bad speaker.  As you pointed out, one or two of these is more than enough for a comedy show.  They are also really good as tops over subs for a full band, as well as wedge monitors.

So, with this new information about your rig, I amend my recommendations as follows:

Sell the KW153's and purchase some subs (maybe a pair of the QSC KS118's).  This will give you the ability to scale a rig from a pair of speakers on a stick (comedy, acoustic gigs, etc), to a full band (tops over subs).

The Yamaha MG series mixers are really crap.  Friends don't let friends buy MG mixers .

Spend a little money on a good mixer that will cover your needs.  In your case, your least expensive full-band mixer would be a Behringer XR18.  For a few hundred more, the Allen & Heath CQ20 would be my 2nd recommendation.  The CQ also has some really nice features for people who are just learning that will really help you get sounding good faster.

The full band will need monitors.

The least expensive option would be to get a rack mounted head phone amp like the Behringer HA8000 ($180) that has 8 wired IEM sends.  Each person would need a set of ear buds like the Shure SE215's ($100).  This is by far the least expensive and best sound quality for the buck you can get.

For a band as you have laid out, you would need at least 3 wedge monitors.  Alto TS412's would work, but they aren't that durable and 3 of them would run you ~$750.  Additionally, wedges are the #1 cause of live feedback (I am not a fan).

When you grow into a pretty profitable band, you can investigate good wireless IEM systems; however, for a 5 piece band, you are looking at around $4000.00 in IEM transmitters and receivers to get you where the $180.00 head phone amp solution will get you.... but they are nicer to setup since you don't need any wires going out on to stage at all.

Of everything I have mentioned, I would start with a decent digital mixer first.  All of the mixers I have talked about are way overkill for a comedy act; however, you will need a mixer with a minimum of 16 XLR inputs for a full band.

If all you want to do is the comedy show type stuff, I would still buy a little mixer like the Flow 8 or a ZED 10Fx so you can control feedback and overall sound volume quickly and easily.  Plus most comedy shows I have ever seen play music between comedians and have a 2nd mic for the announcer.  This means you need at least 2 mic preamps and a stereo input within a mixer to run such a show like a real comedy place would.

[ProSoundWeb Community]