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Author Topic: Behringer Wing Rack release  (Read 1600 times)

John Schalk

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2024, 09:32:03 AM »

What do you want AutoMix for?

Automix is not designed to do anything with music it will sometimes seem to work but then it may makeup its own mind to do something that you are not expecting. It is meant for dealing with a bunch of people speaking, like on a panel discussion.
That is exactly our use case; automixing panel microphones for conferences and other meetings.  I also use it with great results for a sketch comedy gig we do once a year that can have up to 7 actors on stage at one time wearing wireless headset mics. 
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Adam Kane

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2024, 01:24:11 PM »

No, not yet. I have given it some serious consideration, just haven't figured out a way of setting it up properly.

I only ask because there's something to be said for confirmation bias.

Years ago, was working in a venue and had to swap out a few amps and replace with some loaners while his were cleaned and repaired. The system tech was a huge fan of "Brand X" amps and insists there are no others worthy of driving his speakers, and that he CAN hear the difference.

We were originally scheduled to go in and re-install the original amps on a given day, but ended up not being able to get there until several days later. In the meantime, the tech messaged me (thinking he had his original amps back) telling me how much better the PA sounded with his amps back. He apparently hadn't gone to the amp room to look at the rack so he ran a couple of shows on our amps. I wish I could have taken a picture of his face when I showed up to re-install his amps and he realized that he had been running on ours the entire time. A little more conversation led to the conclusion that he was definitely not able to tell the difference between the two.

I would say that the same applies to pretty much any gear, given it's being operated within its design parameters. Different consoles will could behave differently when a head-amp or bus is over driven, or when EQ's are making really drastic cuts/boosts, and maybe even when summing multiple busses together that have taken different paths on their way to the summing point. I'd bet that VERY few people could reliably and repeatedly tell the difference between consoles by listening to a single microphone. I feel that there are many other things in a rig (and the room) that can have a much more significant impact in the overall performance.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2024, 01:28:47 PM by Adam Kane »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2024, 02:03:04 PM »

I only ask because there's something to be said for confirmation bias.

Years ago, was working in a venue and had to swap out a few amps and replace with some loaners while his were cleaned and repaired. The system tech was a huge fan of "Brand X" amps and insists there are no others worthy of driving his speakers, and that he CAN hear the difference.

We were originally scheduled to go in and re-install the original amps on a given day, but ended up not being able to get there until several days later. In the meantime, the tech messaged me (thinking he had his original amps back) telling me how much better the PA sounded with his amps back. He apparently hadn't gone to the amp room to look at the rack so he ran a couple of shows on our amps. I wish I could have taken a picture of his face when I showed up to re-install his amps and he realized that he had been running on ours the entire time. A little more conversation led to the conclusion that he was definitely not able to tell the difference between the two.

I would say that the same applies to pretty much any gear, given it's being operated within its design parameters. Different consoles will could behave differently when a head-amp or bus is over driven, or when EQ's are making really drastic cuts/boosts, and maybe even when summing multiple busses together that have taken different paths on their way to the summing point. I'd bet that VERY few people could reliably and repeatedly tell the difference between consoles by listening to a single microphone. I feel that there are many other things in a rig (and the room) that can have a much more significant impact in the overall performance.

^^^ THIS. ^^^ RIGHT. ^^^ HERE.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2024, 02:42:42 PM »

I have watched numerous videos where a signal is taken into multiple mixing consoles (digital and analog) at all price points (like Behringer and Mackie to Digico) and compared the results with test equipment. With a flat EQ, there is VERY little difference (almost none) between all of them. Sure there are differences in workflow, how EQ's respond, FX, etc.

The differences come in with multiple signals, multiple FX processors, phase coherence (or not).  It's not drastic with just a single, unprocessed source.

While I haven't played with them side by side, there's a lot more overlap between dLive and Digico than most - especially Digico - are willing to admit.  From distant memory, that's why dLive in particular took longer to hit the market and was in R&D so long, and why dLive sounds better than the previous generation (GLD, Qu, iLive). 

I've used Midas Pro (real Midas, not the Behringer X/M32 junk) and Digico SD series, as well as Avantis and other newer dLive.  Not enough to give any real observations, other than none sounded "off".  Older Yamaha and Presonus sounded bad, the X32 sounds a bit harsh and thin, the older A&H sounded a bit dull/muddy.  I'd have to really use dLive and Digico to say if sound quality is a difference, much less a major point against one or the other.   
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2024, 02:59:33 PM »

I would say that the same applies to pretty much any gear, given it's being operated within its design parameters.

I'd argue this a little bit.  Different mixers certainly can sound quite different.  For an example, the old crappy analog behringer mixers sounded horrid next to the Mackies that they cloned.  I've done blind A/B testing on them and with music programming could easily pick each one out.  The weird thing is when I put them on a bench with a scope, I couldn't tell the difference.  Yeah, the tools I was using were too limited to show what was happening, and I couldn't find where the actual differences were.  But it was an audible difference.

Amplifiers with different class types certainly will sound different. 

Digital mixers will be the same. The design of the systems will determine how they sound.  Is it enough that you can reliably pick which one you're listening to?  Maybe.  Enough that just talking through an SM58 and listening to yourself?  I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.
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Brian Jojade

James Paul

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2024, 04:56:38 PM »

For the record, many are already doing with with Mixing Station and your hardware controller of choice (XTouch, Waves FIT, etc). The major benefit is, once invested in the hardware, you can use the controller and a device with Mixing Station installed, on any console that is compatible with Mixing Station (XM32, Wing, DLive, Avantis, SQ, Soundcraft, Yamaha TF, etc)
^^^ditto
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Dan Richardson

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2024, 09:40:44 AM »

Amplifiers with different class types certainly will sound different. 

Digital mixers will be the same.

Old analog gear? Certainly. Digital? Not so much. A/D/A architecture has been standardized, and the rest is just math. If you can hear a difference in two systems with no EQ applied, something is wrong with one of them.
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Eric Deweese

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 05:11:32 PM »


As Jeff mentioned, and as A&H told me - there are two types of rack-only mixers.  There's cheap ones (Behringer/Midas), and there's pro ones (dLive).  Since SQ has dLive brains, with some features turned off - bringing out an SQ-Rack would be a CDM-32 essentially with a few software features turned off.  That would put it in the Pro category, with a Pro price, and would cannibalize the CDM line.  Turning off a few features in software doesn't save any real cost.

If you want a cheap class, rackmount mixer from A&H - the Qu-Pac is it.  The Qu isn't quite up to the X/M32 level though, but it's the same general class.

The real issue is that too many people consider the X/M32 family "pro", when it isn't.  It's great for the price, but it's still MI level.  I don't support the Tribe, so for basic portable use - CQ-20B.  For Pro use, dLive, with any interface you want (iPad, computer, surface).

I know what rack only products A&H currently has... I am trying to say there is a market in the middle, a market with people with fists full of money for the right product. I choose not to support the tribe as well, I am merely talking about what I perceive to be a major product gap. I don't need to spend $9500 on a CDM32... An SQ6 is $4999 and I would happily pay that for the SQ feature set in a rack only format. Heck, I would pay a touch more if it had all of the features and enough I/O (mainly outputs) to properly populate a rack for a self contained band.

The Wing is targeting that demographic, and I believe it will end up being a smashing success... Much to my disappointment. We will see what happens as that product launch unfolds. I will stress once more, I want to live in a world where Behringer exists less.
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Jon Dees

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #28 on: Today at 10:16:15 AM »

If you want to get spicy you can try an iLive now that Mixing Station supports it. $1500 for an iDR-48 on eBay today (plus $900 for a Dante card).

I want them to sell a software ‘upgrade’ (and downgrade) for the AHM-64 to turn it into an SQ rack. No new hardware, just marketing expense.

I know what rack only products A&H currently has... I am trying to say there is a market in the middle, a market with people with fists full of money for the right product. I choose not to support the tribe as well, I am merely talking about what I perceive to be a major product gap. I don't need to spend $9500 on a CDM32... An SQ6 is $4999 and I would happily pay that for the SQ feature set in a rack only format. Heck, I would pay a touch more if it had all of the features and enough I/O (mainly outputs) to properly populate a rack for a self contained band.

The Wing is targeting that demographic, and I believe it will end up being a smashing success... Much to my disappointment. We will see what happens as that product launch unfolds. I will stress once more, I want to live in a world where Behringer exists less.
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
« Reply #29 on: Today at 02:45:38 PM »

I'm not a fan of the tribe either, but I'll be interested to see what sort of control the Wing Rack will offer remotely (if different than the Wing).  This is the achilles heel to any stagebox-style mixer in my opinion. 


When I made the jump in 2016 from Mackie DL-series to A&H iLive in my personal inventory, sound quality was a huge improvement.  However, the incredible routing flexibility of the iLive means the App can only adjust certain things (no access to scenes, no access to FX parameters, no routing adjustments etc) that I had gotten used to with the tablet-only control format of the DL.  I have a touchscreen PC toughbook I can run the editor software on for more control, but I generally bring a surface if there's more than a few inputs.  I can't seem to get the editor software windows to scale nicely on my screen, so it's still not ideal for screen real estate use.  Either I have to scroll left and right because everything is large, or the buttons are so small I'm playing "operation" with my stylus not to hit the wrong button. 


In the right circumstances I don't mind mixing on glass and one less item to bring would be great.  I typically mix a few gigs a year on an X32 rack (not mine) and I will say I appreciate all the control available remotely over the iPad; I find it pretty fast to operate, especially mixing monitors and FOH compared to the double-tap mix bus selection method of the iLive. 

If my clients had the budgets to cover my cost to upgrade to DLive I'd do it in a heartbeat since I love the format (I have several mix racks with Dante cards and surfaces), but I don't need the additional bells & whistles (more busses, inputs, plugins) that come with DLive (64in/32out has been plenty for me but SQ falls short and Avantis Solo is looking tempting).  iLive's are still going strong, meeting rider needs for my level of work, and the T112 is still incredibly walk-up friendly to mix on (routing aside). I recently mixed on an M32 and only touched the screen four times during the show while remembering it's not a touchscreen. 

I have been very impressed with the app controllable features in the new DM7 app from Yamaha (just offline) which is very appealing to me, the DM7C is on my shortlist against the Solo but neither are a mixrack format mixer.  Hoping to get 1-2 more seasons out of my iLive rigs so I have plenty of time to over-analyze my options.

Jon Dees just blew my mind with the mention of Mixing Station for iLive so I guess I know what I'm doing for the rest of the weekend. This is game changing for me. 
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Re: Behringer Wing Rack release
Ā« Reply #29 on: Today at 02:45:38 PM Ā»


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