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[Scott Holtzman]

I really liked the sound of my GB8, which is the biggest reason I stayed with Soundcraft when I switched to digital. I like the sound of the expression, was just looking for a little more functionality, but I might can get some more mileage if I start running a separate monitor console like I said, as that would free up some busses that are currently on monitor duty and let me convert them to subgroups.

I just upgraded my subwoofers to the active JTR captivator 212 pro’s. Need to do a little system tuning, but their first show will be in a few weeks. Need to rebuild the bank account for my next big purchase. My current mains are Yorkville U15’s.

Very interested in your opinion on those suns too please.  Maybe in another thread.  Lots of anecdotal posts never a full gig review. It would be much appreciated.


I think a seperate monitor console is way too much complexity.  My gosh the rack mounted Behringer (I prefer the midas branded stuff) has the same matrix as the console.  If you don't want the physical surface you still can have 16 mix's going on L&R kill 2 and subs kill 1 (has built in crossover if wanted) that leaves 11 monitor or fill mixes.  More than I have ever needed for clubs, small festivals and lawn chair gigs. 


We even use the M32 with the DL231 a unique stagebox with 2 preamps and a/d converters per channel with the Midas Pro.  Pro is FOH with 96Khz and M32 is monitor at 48Khz.  All with one stagebox!  Midas Pro is going for cheap on the used market  and they are incredible mixers.  If you go that path I have two of the DL231 stage boxes for sale.  Those are the pro preamps.  You would have a helluva rig.  Add a Midas 1U core mixer if you ever do want separate monitor mixes and for $1000 the monitor engineer is on glass or of course they can use the full size M32 or the M32R a 16  fader desk. 


So many options.  Here is the link to those DL231's my A1 has them for sale.  https://reverb.com/item/81640749-midas-dl231-2010s-blue 2 gives you 48 mixes.  They sound amazing and all setup is done on front panel no software.  Much better for the field.


I have 2 in my stage rack and a 4 link Cat snake on a reel. 

[David Junius]

Very interested in your opinion on those suns too please.  Maybe in another thread.  Lots of anecdotal posts never a full gig review. It would be much appreciated.


I think a seperate monitor console is way too much complexity.  My gosh the rack mounted Behringer (I prefer the midas branded stuff) has the same matrix as the console.  If you don't want the physical surface you still can have 16 mix's going on L&R kill 2 and subs kill 1 (has built in crossover if wanted) that leaves 11 monitor or fill mixes.  More than I have ever needed for clubs, small festivals and lawn chair gigs. 


We even use the M32 with the DL231 a unique stagebox with 2 preamps and a/d converters per channel with the Midas Pro.  Pro is FOH with 96Khz and M32 is monitor at 48Khz.  All with one stagebox!  Midas Pro is going for cheap on the used market  and they are incredible mixers.  If you go that path I have two of the DL231 stage boxes for sale.  Those are the pro preamps.  You would have a helluva rig.  Add a Midas 1U core mixer if you ever do want separate monitor mixes and for $1000 the monitor engineer is on glass or of course they can use the full size M32 or the M32R a 16  fader desk. 


So many options.  Here is the link to those DL231's my A1 has them for sale.  https://reverb.com/item/81640749-midas-dl231-2010s-blue 2 gives you 48 mixes.  They sound amazing and all setup is done on front panel no software.  Much better for the field.


I have 2 in my stage rack and a 4 link Cat snake on a reel.

Will do on the review, I heard a band using them a couple years back and couldn’t believe all that low end was coming out of those tiny subs. So since I wanted something a little more portable, I went with those. I started with 2, and I’ll have to see if I need more. The last several years my shows have scaled back in audience/room size. The only thing I can see that I would have liked is the amp panel to have an output/ thru XLR to daisy chain more subs together.

I never thought about the Midas pro 2. Haven’t seen one in the wild locally, so kinda erased that option out of my head. I think that’s the middle ground I was referring, and I see the wing kinda follows that same mentality. Both are just mix surfaces, the work is all done in the stagebox. So there’s a bunch of busses on the console(physical or virtual) but the I/O is based on the stagebox. I’ll have to definitely check into this option as it might be what I had in mind without spending huge amounts of money. Thanks

[Kevin Maxwell]

 I think that’s the middle ground I was referring, and I see the wing kinda follows that same mentality. Both are just mix surfaces, the work is all done in the stagebox. So there’s a bunch of busses on the console(physical or virtual) but the I/O is based on the stagebox. I’ll have to definitely check into this option as it might be what I had in mind without spending huge amounts of money. Thanks

On the WING the preamps are in the stage boxes and there is nothing more than that in the stage boxes. There are some systems where the Stage box is actually the mixer and the Mix surface is just a remote controller of the Stage box But that is not how the WING works, all of the processing is in the WING surface itself. It just doesn't have a lot of built in preamps in the surface. And that is the way I like it, why have a lot of preamps in the surface when all of my inputs (except for a very few) are on stage into a digital stage box.

[Scott Holtzman]

Will do on the review, I heard a band using them a couple years back and couldn’t believe all that low end was coming out of those tiny subs. So since I wanted something a little more portable, I went with those. I started with 2, and I’ll have to see if I need more. The last several years my shows have scaled back in audience/room size. The only thing I can see that I would have liked is the amp panel to have an output/ thru XLR to daisy chain more subs together.

I never thought about the Midas pro 2. Haven’t seen one in the wild locally, so kinda erased that option out of my head. I think that’s the middle ground I was referring, and I see the wing kinda follows that same mentality. Both are just mix surfaces, the work is all done in the stagebox. So there’s a bunch of busses on the console(physical or virtual) but the I/O is based on the stagebox. I’ll have to definitely check into this option as it might be what I had in mind without spending huge amounts of money. Thanks

You are not going to find good pricing online.  You need a rep for this level of Midas.  Try Mike Pyle.  Reps often have demo gear they can make screaming deals on.  Our tour pack was a demo.

[JohnReeve]

I'm still at the lower end of this industry, so maybe I'm not the best to give a response.  I mix to LR and am not doing anything fancy with buses.

I think the pro 2 is a nice board.  A guy I work for has a couple and I've worked with them enough to have opinions.

This spring I considered buying one along with a dl251.

However, I bought a m32r this year for some gigs.  Ironically, it has forced me to work more with DCAs just because the board is laid out to work that way.

The reason I did this was thinking about how many times I've moved the pro 2.  My m32r is in a pelican, and the two dl16 I have are each in smaller racks (one has an m32c).

This arrangement makes it so that I can still do a show and put what I need in my pickup truck even if I am bringing a trailer to more of the events I do.

I can probably get the rack for the pro2 up a ramp into a van by myself.  I've moved x32s in smaller ata cases by myself, but my buddy's m32 is in a case with a doghouse and is tough to get up a ramp into a van without two folks.  I can't recall trying to move the pro2 in its case up a ramp into a van, but my sense is that it's a two person job.

And I don't own a box truck with a lift gate.

I know I can get a tilt up stand so I could put a large mixer up more or less by myself, but usually when we are doing shows where the pro2 is at the front of house there are a bunch of hands around anyhow.  I am also aware that there are products like the sd11 that are small and powerful- I'm not sure if that is really a good example of the "middle ground" though.  I suppose that if I keep going in this direction, I will eventually need to hire folks to help me (and that is a whole other set of logistics).

All that is to say, looking at the logistics might be a place for answers about why/where folks switch over to more complicated or nuanced mixing setups.

I have avoided setting up stuff like bus compression because I am almost always doing one-off setups on boards I don't own for bands I have never met on stages where there is a lot of change over.  These kinds of setups seem like one place where I could easily mess something up.

But maybe that's why I'm still mostly moving boxes instead of sitting at FOH listening to the A2 sound check the bands.

[Tim McCulloch]

Will do on the review, I heard a band using them a couple years back and couldn’t believe all that low end was coming out of those tiny subs. So since I wanted something a little more portable, I went with those. I started with 2, and I’ll have to see if I need more. The last several years my shows have scaled back in audience/room size. The only thing I can see that I would have liked is the amp panel to have an output/ thru XLR to daisy chain more subs together.

I never thought about the Midas pro 2. Haven’t seen one in the wild locally, so kinda erased that option out of my head. I think that’s the middle ground I was referring, and I see the wing kinda follows that same mentality. Both are just mix surfaces, the work is all done in the stagebox. So there’s a bunch of busses on the console(physical or virtual) but the I/O is based on the stagebox. I’ll have to definitely check into this option as it might be what I had in mind without spending huge amounts of money. Thanks

I would not buy a Midas Pro 2.  In fact I wouldn't buy any Midas Pro series mixer other than the Pro X.

[Tim McCulloch]

I'm still at the lower end of this industry, so maybe I'm not the best to give a response.  I mix to LR and am not doing anything fancy with buses.

I think the pro 2 is a nice board.  A guy I work for has a couple and I've worked with them enough to have opinions.

This spring I considered buying one along with a dl251.

However, I bought a m32r this year for some gigs.  Ironically, it has forced me to work more with DCAs just because the board is laid out to work that way.

The reason I did this was thinking about how many times I've moved the pro 2.  My m32r is in a pelican, and the two dl16 I have are each in smaller racks (one has an m32c).

This arrangement makes it so that I can still do a show and put what I need in my pickup truck even if I am bringing a trailer to more of the events I do.

I can probably get the rack for the pro2 up a ramp into a van by myself.  I've moved x32s in smaller ata cases by myself, but my buddy's m32 is in a case with a doghouse and is tough to get up a ramp into a van without two folks.  I can't recall trying to move the pro2 in its case up a ramp into a van, but my sense is that it's a two person job.

And I don't own a box truck with a lift gate.

I know I can get a tilt up stand so I could put a large mixer up more or less by myself, but usually when we are doing shows where the pro2 is at the front of house there are a bunch of hands around anyhow.  I am also aware that there are products like the sd11 that are small and powerful- I'm not sure if that is really a good example of the "middle ground" though.  I suppose that if I keep going in this direction, I will eventually need to hire folks to help me (and that is a whole other set of logistics).

All that is to say, looking at the logistics might be a place for answers about why/where folks switch over to more complicated or nuanced mixing setups.

I have avoided setting up stuff like bus compression because I am almost always doing one-off setups on boards I don't own for bands I have never met on stages where there is a lot of change over.  These kinds of setups seem like one place where I could easily mess something up.

But maybe that's why I'm still mostly moving boxes instead of sitting at FOH listening to the A2 sound check the bands.

If you're doing stuff by yourself because "you have to", you're undercharging for your services.  Seriously.  At least half of my orthopedic and muscular issues are a result of working solo 35 years ago.

That said, I looked at the Kerrville '24 line up and saw several old friends on the bill.  Joe "King" Carrasco is a name that goes back to nearly the beginning of my mixing career.  Ray Wiley Hubbard, Brave Combo, Still on the Hill are all "old friends".  Let me know if you need an FOH/system guy.  Right now I've got some open spots in my calendar.

[David Junius]

I would not buy a Midas Pro 2.  In fact I wouldn't buy any Midas Pro series mixer other than the Pro X.

Well it looks like I have some research to do to compare what Midas and Allen & Heath have to offer and really define what my minimum needs are versus weight and size. Another thing I’m seeing from this thread is that I probably shouldn’t get too caught up in the crazy routing and bussing that the major tours use since that’s not the level I operate at. I’ll take a look at the pro x and probably the wing as well and check into reviews. Probably wouldn’t hurt to see what’s in stock locally at the rental houses and get their opinions as well.

Thanks for all the replies.
Dave

Thanks

[JohnReeve]

If you're doing stuff by yourself because "you have to", you're undercharging for your services.  Seriously.  At least half of my orthopedic and muscular issues are a result of working solo 35 years ago.

That said, I looked at the Kerrville '24 line up and saw several old friends on the bill.  Joe "King" Carrasco is a name that goes back to nearly the beginning of my mixing career.  Ray Wiley Hubbard, Brave Combo, Still on the Hill are all "old friends".  Let me know if you need an FOH/system guy.  Right now I've got some open spots in my calendar.

You're right.  It's no joke about what moving boxes can do.  I don't own much stuff I can't move (my Rhodes is kinda pushing it, but it's only gone out once this year).  I move a lot of big stuff I don't own, but I have help with that.  Or more correctly I -am- the help.

It's not bad working alone when the boxes are small and well planned out- that's not a decision driven by need or budget but just because I don't need a second person helping me lay out a couple of small systems at a wedding for a service and some speeches or making a bar band too loud.

As for KFF, I can get you on a volunteer crew if you want but that really doesn't pay well

[Scott Holtzman]

I would not buy a Midas Pro 2.  In fact I wouldn't buy any Midas Pro series mixer other than the Pro X.

Why they are a bargain and the DL231 is a slick box.  Not just myself but a provider we cross rent with still get a lot of mileage out of the Pro2.  The PA in the soft seat room was the house rig.


The pic of the stage was in the stack with the lighting effect I thought was cool all done with conventional fixtures.  The laser guy and safety officer were on this show!

[ProSoundWeb Community]