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Sound system for 3000-6000 seat venues advice!!!

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Art Welter:

--- Quote from: Jason Raboin on April 19, 2024, 03:08:42 PM ---I'm curious why this would be a purchase rather than a rental from one of the usual suspects.  There's a reason Clair and the rest of them exist.  I have clients who consider purchasing parts of their system, but when asked where they're storing it, who's maintaining it, etc. they quickly come to realize why they're better off renting.

--- End quote ---
Most artists are better off renting because they are not business oriented, don't have consistent career paths, crew and management.

Yanni purchased a complete L-ACOUSTICS V-DOSC system sometime last century, the cost savings of owning and maintaining it has easily amounted to millions of dollars over the decade(s) of use.









 

Scott Holtzman:

--- Quote from: Tim McCulloch on April 19, 2024, 02:15:25 PM ---You are doing your artist a disservice to reject JBL VTX or A series.

I currently am Audio Janitor for an l'Acoustic K3/KS28 rig.  Perhaps it's because I don't speak AudioFrench, but I find myself disliking most of the system tuning tools, but perhaps that's because the only official training is in-person and the system owner hasn't been keen on sending me out for that training.  It's not a bad rig but not what I would have specified even if I liked the l'Acoustic ecosystem.

My experience with S6L has been mostly that the WAVES part of the package crashed.  Never had an issue with the console itself.  YMMV, etc.  Take a look at the PM7 Rivage, I think you'll like the way it sounds and so far maintain Yamaha's "it just works" tradition.

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I have yet to hear the A series but I was only saying you can't go wrong in that size gig with Kara2.  You can ground stack 2-4 on your subs at small venues and fly the whole rig for the larger ones. 


I have a new A1 working for me and this guy is awesome, been on tour with  a few decent acts and he brought me in on a some gigs with his old employer and I got to hear the K2.  I always liked Kara the K1 is even smoother but still has the blow the doors off output you need some time.  Power and grace is a nice combo.  He has the l'Acoustics training so I am very comfortable with his skills.  That's why I asked Luke if they were going to bring along an SE.


Scott

Scott Holtzman:

--- Quote from: Art Welter on April 19, 2024, 07:06:55 PM --- Most artists are better off renting because they are not business oriented, don't have consistent career paths, crew and management.

Yanni purchased a complete L-ACOUSTICS V-DOSC system sometime last century, the cost savings of owning and maintaining it has easily amounted to millions of dollars over the decade(s) of use.

--- End quote ---


Yanni was a very stable artist so that was a good career choice.  He was married to that rich and beutiful soap actress so I think he had the cheez to fund the deal.


For those of us in the trenches that opportunity smells like a rental to me.


It's so funny to see everyone's preferences.  My love of L and Kara, Tim with JBL and Brian with D&B can't go wrong with any of those brands.  Choose a solid partner though.


I also want to make it clear I love Avantis (have one at my church) and DLive it just is non existent in the rental market.  I am not an Avid fan so the smaller Rivage or Digico are going to be the consoles most available in the rental market.  I actually only know one person in Wisconsin that rents his D-Live but he usually goes out with the console. 

Tim McCulloch:

--- Quote from: Scott Holtzman on April 19, 2024, 07:31:23 PM ---
Yanni was a very stable artist so that was a good career choice.  He was married to that rich and beutiful soap actress so I think he had the cheez to fund the deal.


For those of us in the trenches that opportunity smells like a rental to me.


It's so funny to see everyone's preferences.  My love of L and Kara, Tim with JBL and Brian with D&B can't go wrong with any of those brands.  Choose a solid partner though.


I also want to make it clear I love Avantis (have one at my church) and DLive it just is non existent in the rental market.  I am not an Avid fan so the smaller Rivage or Digico are going to be the consoles most available in the rental market.  I actually only know one person in Wisconsin that rents his D-Live but he usually goes out with the console.

--- End quote ---
I'm very keen on the d&b workflow and products, too.  I like the sound of much of l'Acoustics products, what I don't care for is how they get from point A to point B.  That can be remedied with time and patience and money.

I'm not sure what *current* JBL products generate antipathy, but back in the VerTec days the issue was system owners who "cowboyed" their coverage and processing.  When JBL finally got to V4 presets and locked most of the important parameters from meddling system owners the damage of inconsistent rigs was done.  It helped that they got Line Array Calculator dialed in so the picture sounded like the PA.

And that validated the approach l'Acoustics took:  system owners must take training, limit the changes an SE or owner to only preset changes, and control gain staging and circuit power by requiring specific power amps, among a list of requirements.  Their goal was to give BEs world-wide, a consistent PA no matter where the system was located.  JBL pissed that away for too long.

My old boss was FOH for an international act "very popular with the scooter crowd" and bitched that every VerTec rig he mixed on sounded different.  When it was time to buy a line array for his shop... he ended up with VerTec.  I got a lot of miles out of those rigs and usually the BEs were complimentary.  "Best VerTec rig I've mixed on" and "you must have spent a lot of time working this rig."  Mostly I made the pretty pictures in the coverage calculator, put the PA up the way it said to, and powered it right.

Failure to correctly use a manufacturer's prediction software and configuration files will compromise any brand of system.

Luke Geis:
Thank you all for your replies and input. I am on the same page for a lot of this. I too am not exactly sure why they want to buy, as we have not gotten that deep into conversation. I see it more as build us your wish list, and let's see what we can do. My understanding is that there is an eventual installation that they have planned for the equipment, so purchasing is part of that plan?

As for mixer choice, I am NOT a fan of Avid in any sense of teh imagination. I dislike Pro-Tools, and I don't see value in buying plug ins for a specific mixer, or other proprietary Hardware. I have had 4 shows where either faders have failed, and or the MB took a dookie with Avid S6L's... Maybe bad luck? I am not against the large format mixers by any means, but if this is a buy it all rig, then buying multiples of each mixer is going to set a red light really quick when they start getting into the $100k mark. But then again, maybe they expect that? I have no problem working with boards with even modest on-board features.

After a little more research, I am leaning more towards a Kara II rig. I have not met a LA rig yet that I have fallen in love with; the Martin W8LM was probably the most enjoyable TBH, but that is out of production.

I am on the hunt for a Systems tech/A2 as part of the team, not sure who the ME is yet, or how many A2's, or staff I will have at hand? Still in the preliminary stages of settling all that stuff in.

Keep em coming!!!

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