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[Phil Schrantz]

Hi all. Need a little help...

Scenario: 5-6 piece rock/pop cover band. As busy as we want to be (3-4 gigs/month).

System: 6 Shure GLXD4 wireless mics running through a Shure combiner to two paddle antennas. 3 Sennheiser EW-G4 wireless transmitters sending 6 mono mixes to 6 Sennheiser body packs through a Sennheiser combiner to a single paddle antenna. Band members control their IEM mixes via MXBus app. Stage WiFi network is via Ubiquiti router broadcasting 5GHz only with a hidden SSID. Instruments (drum mics, 2 guitars, bass, and keys) go direct to FOH via Behringer X32R mixer controlled via Mixing Station. Mixer goes to speakers (QSC KS1118/K12.2) via a dbx PA2 processor (used almost exclusively for feedback management) All of this is run from the stage by me while performing. In conformance with the unwritten law, I am the bassist and therefore own the PA system. Opportunity for pilot error is significant...

We've used the wireless mics/IEMs successfully for several years without any significant issues with an analog mixer, a QSC Touchmix 30, and a Midas XR18. Last night was our first gig with the X32R, which is brand new and running the current firmware.

During sound check, bandmates said they were experiencing spontaneous changes in their IEM mixes while performing. I was not changing any settings. They described that their vocal sounded fine until the guitars started playing, which then drowned out their voices. Later in the night one person said that the opposite was occurring - their instrument would seemingly disappear when the vocals got loud. It may be important to note that I did not experience this behavior during the evening in my IEM mix. FOH mix was stable and sounded good.

I've verified that all of the major settings are the same between the MR18 and the X32R. I'm not really sure how to even begin to diagnose whats happening here.

Have any of you experienced this sort of thing? Any insight to offer on how I can correct it? Trying to avoid a band mutiny...

Thanks!

Phil

[Mike J Davis]

I did see something similar back when I was running sound for a band with an M32, and we tried to give them control over their in-ear mixes using their phones.

It turns out it is VERY easy with the M/X32 to switch from the page for an individual’s monitor send to either the master or another send page. So we had issues where musicians were adjusting the mix for either another musician, or even the FOH mix!

The only solution I found was vigilance on the part of the musicians to verify the page they were on in the app before they started adjusting levels.

Perhaps as a test case, just get a rough mix going, and then put the phones down and see if the mixes stabilize?

[Landon Lewsaw]

Almost sounds like there's a ducker set up on the vocal channels, or keyed to the vocal channels.  Maybe make sure that the compressor on all your input channels are set to "self" triggered.

[Bill Hubbard]

Check and make sure channels are set to Pre Fader that are going to the IEM.

[Mac Kerr]

Check and make sure channels are set to Pre Fader that are going to the IEM.

Why would you do this when the mons are on their own console? You do that when mixing mons from FOH.

Mac

[John Schalk]

Why would you do this when the mons are on their own console? You do that when mixing mons from FOH.

Mac

My reading of the OP's post is that they replaced the XR18 with an M32r and that the M32r is running both FOH and IEMs, with the bass player mixing from the stage. 

My suggestion to the OP is to haul all of the gear out at the next band practice.  It's possible that nothing was actually wrong other than the band needing to rebalance their IEM mixes to account for the new console.  I've seen what the OP described happen with bands that have bought their own IEM systems, but still rely on the PA provider to mix their IEMs from FOH.  In other words; they haven't bought a split and monitor console yet.  Sound check goes okay and then they play a full song and suddenly everybody needs major changes to their mix. 

[doug johnson2]

Shot in the dark but, it sounds like the auto mix feature may be engaged?

[Don T. Williams]

If you have a lot (or enough) "spare input channels" you can send your inputs to two channels, one for FOH and a second just for the IEM mix.  This way they are truly independent of each other including EQ and compression.  Of course if you are using all your inputs this won't work.

[Russell Ault]

{...} Last night was our first gig with the X32R, which is brand new and running the current firmware. {...}

{...}I've verified that all of the major settings are the same between the MR18 and the X32R. I'm not really sure how to even begin to diagnose whats happening here. {...}

Can you post a copy of your X32 show file for us to look at? Easiest way to do this is probably using a USB stick in the console (you can also use the X32-Edit software on a computer), then change the extension in the file name to "txt" and attach it to a post here (the forum restricts what file-types can be uploaded, but since show files are just text files with a special extension anyway it's more than happy to accept a show file if the extension has been changed).

-Russ

[Phil Schrantz]

Can you post a copy of your X32 show file for us to look at? Easiest way to do this is probably using a USB stick in the console (you can also use the X32-Edit software on a computer), then change the extension in the file name to "txt" and attach it to a post here (the forum restricts what file-types can be uploaded, but since show files are just text files with a special extension anyway it's more than happy to accept a show file if the extension has been changed).

-Russ

Thanks for everyone’s insights. Sorry for not responding - busy dealing with a flooded basement at home. So much fun…

We had a rehearsal last night and I set up our entire live rig in the studio. I also called Sennheiser support and talked with a cool guy there. He suggested some minor tweaks to squelch, sensitivity, and limiter settings, which I made. He also noted that it might be helpful to run bodypack volume relatively high - around 6 to 7 and allow the users to control their max volume from the app. Finally, he suggested revisiting our gain staging and vocal EQ to be sure a hot channel wasn’t dominating the others, and to eliminate the chance for any carrier tone problems.

We did all of that last night. I also asked everyone to reset their IEM mixes. We got through the night with no overt mutiny. We have a gig on Saturday and I’ll be bringing the MR18 just in case we need to revert to that. I’ll try to grab a show file and post it because I’m always open to learning how not to be a total screw up!

Thanks again!

Phil

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