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[JohnReeve]

Add on question,  is there any difference between this neutered router and a purpose designed AP like a Ubiquiti device?

So, I have a m32c as my backup and am somewhat paranoid about wifi connections- at least one show I had considerable issues with the 2Ghz band which led me down that rabbit hole.

Right now I have two options- I have a cheaper Linksys e5400.  It's basically the "neutered router".  I also have a Ubiquiti UAP-AC-M which is attached to a EdgeRouter X, which has felt like a small step up and which I feel like I could expand if I needed to.

To be honest, it's been a while since I have had problems with either- just turning off the 2Ghz seems to have done a lot.  And I haven't been doing a lot of shows that rely the Ubiquiti- the linksys is in my work box and I take it when I do gigs on other folks' systems where the tablet is just "nice to have" and not the whole show.

The immediate difference between those two systems (for me) is that I have a lot more insight into what is going on in the network with  the Unbquiti equipment- I can get some logging of connectivity and traffic.  Fortunately I haven't had to use that to troubleshoot- once I got everything working, it's stayed working.  A secondary benefit is that I have the AP on a long cable so I can mount it higher to keep it in line of sight.

To be honest, the Ubquiti equipment wasn't a whole lot more than the Linksys but it was more of a pain to setup.  Not terrible, but I am pretty technical and have a background in networking for web and iaas platforms- it still took me a while playing around to feel like I understood the system.

[Brian Jojade]

Add on question,  is there any difference between this neutered router and a purpose designed AP like a Ubiquiti device?

In networking, just like in audio, the answer ends up being 'it depends'.

Most devices put into bridge mode behave fairly well and act properly as an AP. However, that's not always the case. Some go into pseudo bridge mode and work most of the time, but randomly create issues.  Some devices have countless different settings that impact compatibility in one way or another.

Devices that give you access to more settings sometimes let you solve problems that more basic devices can't, but they also give you settings that create problems under normal circumstances as well.

The end result is if you don't understand all of the settings available to you on your network, you may run into problems.  Using dedicated access points means having less settings to adjust to get it working and as such probably will be more reliable.  Of course, it depends.

[Alec Spence]

Add on question,  is there any difference between this neutered router and a purpose designed AP like a Ubiquiti device?

Higher end APs will typically have a higher throughput, and capacity to cope with a higher number of users (or, in our world, a higher number of punters polling for connection).  Funcationality wise, though, they're typically the same.

While I use Unifi APs at home, and other non-profits, to provide whole house coverage, I'm happy using home routers for small scale production work.  They've never let me down, but no wireless is ever guaranteed.

You'll see countless people telling you to use a particular router/AP because that's what they use.  I take that with a strong pinch of salt.

The biggest difference I've seen in "luck" with wi-fi setup is knowledge and capability in network configuration and operation.

[Scott Holtzman]

Audio will still pass if you lose your connection. I had a band start playing once before I had even unpacked my laptop and connected to my M32C. Luckily I had done the same band the night before so the mix was pretty much there.
As others have said, if your using WiFi invest in a good access point and always use 5GHz, not 2.4. I have read that it also helps to not broadcast the SSID. I do but have never had an issue.
If you are (or think you might) switch back and forth from WiFi to wired, use static addresses for everything and be sure they are on the same subnet. Actual routers (as opposed to Access Points) use a different subnet for WiFi and wired so if you switch, you may not be able to connect.

Sorry most routers bridge the wired network and the wireless segments.  Since they are in the same network from a Layer 2 perspective they share the same address schema.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dwayne Aasberg]

Thx for the good info Brian and Alec.
Confirms what I thought I knew and pushes it a little further.
D

[Jeff M Hague]

Hi Scott.
Risking derailing this thread...

I admit to not understanding the difference between a router and an AP.  I use a 5GHz router to access M32/MR18 remotely.  I disabled 2.4GHz in that router to avoid loss of control situations.  I also use the router to manage a RPI running light control.

Anyway, can you direct me to guidance on setting up an AP without a router?  Everything I find about APs appears to describe them in home or enterprise settings.

Thx.  D

A router has 2 (or more) network connections each on a different subnet and it routes between them. Typically 1 is the WAN (Wide Area Network) or Internet connection provided by an ISP and the other is the LAN (Local Area Network) where your in-home devices are connected.
An AP (Access Point) on the other hand usually just has 1 subnet that local devices connect to both over wired or WiFi. 1 port is sometimes connected to a router to provide Internet access.
In most cases with a network for controlling a digital console from a tablet, an AP is all that is needed because you usually dont connect that to the Internet. Particularly if it is a mobile rig.
Most devices sold today can be used as either and typically come out of the box configured as a router. The mode can be selected in settings.
APs are less complicated bc they just have the 1 network.
1 of the issues I see when using a router in these kinds of rigs is having 1 device connected to the WAN network and other devices connected to the LAN. They are 2 different subnets so the IP addresses are different and in many cases, you cannot connect.
The simplest and most bulletproof configuration is AP and static addresses for all devices.

[Alec Spence]

The simplest and most bulletproof configuration is AP and static addresses for all devices.

Indeed, but is a PITA if others bring their own devices.  All depends on how stuff's being used.  A DHCP server makes life a whole lot easier.

Incidentally, Ruckus APs are quite decent and can run DHCP.  Additionally, I remember a post recently suggesting OpenWRT could be used on (some?) Unifi APs - again, giving the benefit of DHCP support.

Yes, I'm aware that many big-boy production setups will use static addresses everywhere, but plenty of use cases fall outside this.

[Scott Holtzman]

Indeed, but is a PITA if others bring their own devices.  All depends on how stuff's being used.  A DHCP server makes life a whole lot easier.

Incidentally, Ruckus APs are quite decent and can run DHCP.  Additionally, I remember a post recently suggesting OpenWRT could be used on (some?) Unifi APs - again, giving the benefit of DHCP support.

Yes, I'm aware that many big-boy production setups will use static addresses everywhere, but plenty of use cases fall outside this.

Rukus is good gear and the dog is really cute, I have a stuffed one from a trade show somewhere.


Seriosuly though they require a controller that pushed the cost and complexity up.  Each AP comes with a license to add to the controller or nothing plays nice.

[Scott Holtzman]

So, I have a m32c as my backup and am somewhat paranoid about wifi connections- at least one show I had considerable issues with the 2Ghz band which led me down that rabbit hole.

Right now I have two options- I have a cheaper Linksys e5400.  It's basically the "neutered router".  I also have a Ubiquiti UAP-AC-M which is attached to a EdgeRouter X, which has felt like a small step up and which I feel like I could expand if I needed to.

To be honest, it's been a while since I have had problems with either- just turning off the 2Ghz seems to have done a lot.  And I haven't been doing a lot of shows that rely the Ubiquiti- the linksys is in my work box and I take it when I do gigs on other folks' systems where the tablet is just "nice to have" and not the whole show.

The immediate difference between those two systems (for me) is that I have a lot more insight into what is going on in the network with  the Unbquiti equipment- I can get some logging of connectivity and traffic.  Fortunately I haven't had to use that to troubleshoot- once I got everything working, it's stayed working.  A secondary benefit is that I have the AP on a long cable so I can mount it higher to keep it in line of sight.

To be honest, the Ubquiti equipment wasn't a whole lot more than the Linksys but it was more of a pain to setup.  Not terrible, but I am pretty technical and have a background in networking for web and iaas platforms- it still took me a while playing around to feel like I understood the system.

What do you need the Edgerouter for?

[Scott Holtzman]

He means using one x32 to control another using OSC.  Would be neat, but doubt we'll ever see it.  Not a big enough market with multiple mixers.
A typical "home router" combines a modem, router, switch and wireless access point (AP) into a single device - all very convenient.  You can buy each device separately but, unsurprisingly, the bulk of domestic users want a single, simple box.

Take a home router, plug into its LAN port, rather than the modem, disable DNS, and you have then turned it into an AP with a built-in switch and DHCP server - which is often just what you want for use with a mixer.  You can even disable DHCP, but then you have the extra ball-ache of configuring static IP addresses on all connected devices.

If this is already starting to make your head ache, then welcome to the world of networking.

These days, you really do need some networking knowledge and capability.  Those that do, typically have no problems with their network kit for audio devices.  Those that don't often end up spending loads, and still have problems.

We are overcomplicating this.  Most routers come out of the box with the LAN and the wireless bridged.  The WAN only has one port so not sure why anyone would use it.  Since NAT is also on by default the routing between the LAN and WAN would confuse the audio gear.  NAT is needed to connect to the Internet if using private IP's on the LAN. 


Lastly most routers don't have an antenna port making them hard to improve performance.

[ProSoundWeb Community]