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[Steve Eudaly]

I'd have thought I would have been completely out priced for a D&B rig?

Correct. I'd expect the d&b Y-point source + B6 + D40 combo to be nearly double your budget. But, you get what you pay for. I have a Y10P+V-Sub rig that I use for all kinds of stuff and it's just so efficient, capable and compact.

 I think the RCF TT+ suggestions are probably a good place to start. Solid, easy to deploy, high output, point source boxes are what you need.

[Alec Spence]

Correct. I'd expect the d&b Y-point source + B6 + D40 combo to be nearly double your budget. But, you get what you pay for. I have a Y10P+V-Sub rig that I use for all kinds of stuff and it's just so efficient, capable and compact.

Looking at an invoice, we got Y + B6 + 30D for around your upper budget figure two years ago.  You don't know if you don't ask.  And, again, I don't know why you're not approaching suppliers for prices, rather than just guessing.

 I think the RCF TT+ suggestions are probably a good place to start. Solid, easy to deploy, high output, point source boxes are what you need.
[/quote]
This, too.

[Tim McCulloch]

Looking at an invoice, we got Y + B6 + 30D for around your upper budget figure two years ago.  You don't know if you don't ask.  And, again, I don't know why you're not approaching suppliers for prices, rather than just guessing.

 I think the RCF TT+ suggestions are probably a good place to start. Solid, easy to deploy, high output, point source boxes are what you need.

This, too.

Check the current d&b prices.  I don't have to deal with costs now, but IIRC they are up 20-30% over 2021.

[Tim Hite]

Hi all,

...
However, we're starting to attract quotes for larger events - nothing too big for now, but parties / weddings with 200 guests or so outdoors, so the EV's really aren't going to be loud enough.

...

In my experience, weddings up to around 400 people don't really require a larger sound system than what we would use for 100-150 people. Generally, we're only expected to cover the dance floor with decent volume and not the entire venue as though it were a concert.

Any sound system that will accomplish this task will also have enough volume for the toasts and other festivities.

Not everyone at a wedding wants the full nightclub experience. Some just want to hang out and converse with their families over drinks.

[Steve-White]

In my experience, weddings up to around 400 people don't really require a larger sound system than what we would use for 100-150 people. Generally, we're only expected to cover the dance floor with decent volume and not the entire venue as though it were a concert.

Any sound system that will accomplish this task will also have enough volume for the toasts and other festivities.

Not everyone at a wedding wants the full nightclub experience. Some just want to hang out and converse with their families over drinks.

This is 100% spot on correct for private DJ events.  I've seen it mentioned side fills for vocals.  Absolutely not needed.  When toasts are made and wedding party is announced the dance floor is empty, no music playing and the dance PA covers everything just fine.  Even talk-overs by the DJ are intelligible in the house if the DJ knows what they are doing.

This is experience talking.

[Scott Holtzman]

Hi all,

Hope you are doing well. I come in peace and am looking for some friendly advice - will happily admit before you read any further that live pro audio is absolutely not an expertise of mine (as you will learn quickly). Any advice is much appreciated

After a career performing I'm getting to the point of moving over into running my own event production / AV company. I'm fortunate enough to be in a part of the world where the budgets are good and there is plenty of demand but this is the start of a new journey and I'm having to learn quickly. There are talented freelancing sound men that work with me on events and have recommended certain things to me but I would love some neutral advice here.

So far it's all been relatively straight forwards. For the last year I've built up a good stock of backline (I know far more about keyboards and guitars than speakers) and some small powered PA rigs - we mainly do weddings, small corporate events and private parties indoors to 60-120 people. I've primarily been using powered EV EKX 12" tops with EV EKX 15" subs which have been doing the job.

However, we're starting to attract quotes for larger events - nothing too big for now, but parties / weddings with 200 guests or so outdoors, so the EV's really aren't going to be loud enough.

I'm at a bit of an impasse here as to where to go next. I've got a budget of around £10-15k maximum and would like to make the right call. Would something like the QSC KW122 / KS118 rig be enough of an update (this is coming in at about £6-7k so would leave room to potentially get two sets for days when we work on multiple events) or is it a bit of a baby step from the EVs (I'm talking in terms of volume here but also in terms of quality)?

I've also come across the Nexo P12 / P18s. No idea if I'm comparing apples with oranges here! All in all what would your opinions be on the best powered rig for regular outdoor events to 200 people at this kind of price range?

One thing to note is, when receiving requests we're getting lots of bands asking for line arrays, and this is where my knowledge completely falls apart! I've just read through similar topics on this forum so I apologise if you've read all this before and rolling your eyes in boredom ! One benefit I see from potentially buying a line array is it would give us more scope to do larger events (500-1000 capacity gigs) in time, if and when they come, but are they entirely unsuitable for the 200 capacity gigs? I tend to have a team of 4 or so per event and we usually have plenty of time to set up.

I've seen the RCF HDL series and had wondered about potentially starting with 3 a side and buying as we go to upgrade (not sure on the thoughts based on the 6/10/20 options) plus a pair of 18" subs, but is that completely inappropriate for a 200 person capacity event? I've also seen the DAS audio Vantec range (never come across this brand so don't know anything about them - no idea if that is slanderous!) and the QSC Kla range so would be intrigued as to how they compare.

Having read through here I've seen comments that having a small line array (2/3 a side) isn't really a line array at all and much better flown, and that instead of doing so it would be better to get a standard set of speakers on poles with subs, as I do now. I can understand the logic completely but given a lot of competitors have them, and they're the most asked for on quotes, it's something I have to consider from a business point of view.

Lastly, if I did go the line array route, could someone talk me through the different in potential venue / capacity size based on the different sizes (for example, 5 a side of the RCF HDL 6-A vs 5 a side of the RCF HDL 10-A) would be suitable for X amount of people. Is it better to have X amount of the 6s if we're mainly doing the 200 capacity gigs, or would it be worth paying extra for the larger speakers to give us scope to do bigger gigs?

I have absolutely no idea if all of this is infuriating to read but thank you for any assistance you can offer.

3 boxes isn’t a line array except with the constant curvature stuff.

We have the JBL VRX in stock and it’s the devil everyone knows.  Doesn’t sound all that great but get loud as F*#% and quickly deploys on top of the subs.  Personally I would love to have them on top of a JTR dual 18 so I could knock s*%# off the walls of appropriate. 

The VRX are constantly rented and make quite a bit revenue for me with JBL STX dual 18’s or SRX single 18’s.

The trouble starts when you need to cover more people.  For a room that will hold 400 or so people the ST132 crank lifts do the trick.  For bigger rooms (PA’s  cover rooms not peoples)  you need lifts and 4 boxes a side even with the VRX that will be pointed at the ceiling and floor in addition to what you want to cover. 

We have lifts in stock so we tend to push people toward our FBT Muse boxes rather than tie up both sets of VRX.  The Muse don’t go out as much as the VRX but they do go with the lifts and they cover large outdoor spaces, tents and massive grand ballrooms (most of those have fly points).  The problem is the lifts are around 8K US so if you can rent from someone else that is the way to get into that market.

Good luck please let us know how it goes.

[Helge A Bentsen]

If you want loud and have the logistics to handle it, look into used yesterdays gear.
Here's a pic of a 500 cap venue where they wanted it loud & cost effective.

2x KF750 a side with some DIY 2x18" running Lab FP10K and Powersoft X4L power.

[Brian Jojade]

3 boxes isn’t a line array except with the constant curvature stuff.

We have the JBL VRX in stock and it’s the devil everyone knows.  Doesn’t sound all that great but get loud as F*#% and quickly deploys on top of the subs. 

Yep, there's no 'line' aspect to constant curvature arrays.  But it looks like more than one box, so that must mean it's better...

Nah, the VRX sounds 'ok' and does get silly loud.  No real line array properties available other than minor shading.  Adding boxes only increases the vertical coverage pattern, which quickly becomes silly.

But, it's easy enough to deploy that it rents out.  There are worse options on the market and if you know what you're doing, you can get decent performance out of them.

[Mike Caldwell]

In my experience, weddings up to around 400 people don't really require a larger sound system than what we would use for 100-150 people. Generally, we're only expected to cover the dance floor with decent volume and not the entire venue as though it were a concert.

Any sound system that will accomplish this task will also have enough volume for the toasts and other festivities.

Not everyone at a wedding wants the full nightclub experience. Some just want to hang out and converse with their families over drinks.

If the room is long / deep then maybe some small fills would be needed and only be used during the spoken word parts of the evening.

[Steve-White]

If the room is long / deep then maybe some small fills would be needed and only be used during the spoken word parts of the evening.

Nope, not needed for a mobile show.

Here's why not "When toasts are made and wedding party is announced the dance floor is empty, no music playing and the dance PA covers everything just fine.  Even talk-overs by the DJ are intelligible in the house if the DJ knows what they are doing."

For a DJ show the sound should be focused onto the dance floor with as little "spill over" as possible into the seating areas.  It's not a night club or rave atmosphere - people want to converse and interact in the seating areas and want to rock out on the dance floor.

In a club yes, fills for announcements are almost always the best approach, for a mobile show in a private party not needed or even desirable in most cases.  For a mobile DJ show in a private party "less is better" in the seating areas.

[ProSoundWeb Community]