Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Stephen Swaffer]

I am a licensed electrician-but my church contracted a building (I didn't bid as I have a different day job right now.)  Unfortunately, the master that designed the building installed 8 amp rated 0-10 volt dimmers on 13 amp zones in the gym-obviously they didn't last long.  Ultimately our goal was to convert and allow the dimming to be incorporated into a DMX system for events.  Given I need to replace a dimmer and really hate how much garbage they stuffed into the box  the time to make it like we want is now.  I know Northlight made interfaces-they are no longer around so what is the best way?  I will likely convert the existing box to switches, there is a path to get dimmer lines to a utility room just need the DMX interface.

[Dave Garoutte]

I am a licensed electrician-but my church contracted a building (I didn't bid as I have a different day job right now.)  Unfortunately, the master that designed the building installed 8 amp rated 0-10 volt dimmers on 13 amp zones in the gym-obviously they didn't last long.  Ultimately our goal was to convert and allow the dimming to be incorporated into a DMX system for events.  Given I need to replace a dimmer and really hate how much garbage they stuffed into the box  the time to make it like we want is now.  I know Northlight made interfaces-they are no longer around so what is the best way?  I will likely convert the existing box to switches, there is a path to get dimmer lines to a utility room just need the DMX interface.

I don't think there is anything compatible between an analog (dimmers) and digital (DMX).  They make DMX dimmer packs that will control incandescents, but not the  other way around. You'll need power at the fixtures, and a DMX cable to daisy chain control.

[Brian Jojade]

Are you looking for JUST DMX control, or local control PLUS the ability for DMX control?  The latter is a more complex scenario.

[Craig Hauber]

I am a licensed electrician-but my church contracted a building (I didn't bid as I have a different day job right now.)  Unfortunately, the master that designed the building installed 8 amp rated 0-10 volt dimmers on 13 amp zones in the gym-obviously they didn't last long.  Ultimately our goal was to convert and allow the dimming to be incorporated into a DMX system for events.  Given I need to replace a dimmer and really hate how much garbage they stuffed into the box  the time to make it like we want is now.  I know Northlight made interfaces-they are no longer around so what is the best way?  I will likely convert the existing box to switches, there is a path to get dimmer lines to a utility room just need the DMX interface.

The Doug Fleenor stuff is the best for this.  A little pricier than what you see kicking around on Ebay/amazon but much more enterprise-grade and well supported.
https://www.dfd.com/12anl.html
Although check with the manufacturer of your architectural dimming panel, they may have a DMX add-on module available as well as some have capability already on the control board but with headers just labelled to whatever proprietary name they call it.

[Erik Jerde]

If I’m understanding you right it sounds like you need to replace dimmers and that’s also an opportunity to replace the user controls.

In that case use whatever dimmer will fit your form factor and interface with DMX.  If you have to stick with a 0-10v control then the fleenor stuff is the way to go.

I admittedly have very little experience with 0-10v architectural products.  The one project I was on where this was used the dimmer was actually part of each fixture.  The wall control was powered by mains but the control to fixture run was a special MC cable that had mains conductors and a pair of LV conductors for the dimming control.

[Milt Hathaway]

For odd DMX to whatever conversions, these folks will have a way to do it: https://response-box.com/gear/shop/

[Tim Weaver]

Another Vote for DFD/Doug Fleenor.

I have a room that just got remodeled and I have a dmx board (Chamsys QuickQ Rack) controlling the stage lights already. It was easy to add the DMX12ANL to the system to control the dimming of the led can lights.

The downside that I didn’t know beforehand is that most modern LED can lights will not turn completely off with 0 volts on the sense line. They go down to about 10 percent brightness and stop.

The old controller (demo’d in the remodel) must have also cut power at the 0V level. I need to fond some dmx controllable relay solution if I want to turn these lights completely off.

[Jonathan Kok]

I'm not quite understanding what you're describing. Modern 0-10V dimming doesn't have a normal dimmer, but rather the fixtures are fed a constant voltage, and have a dimmer built into them that is controlled by the 0-10V line. The dimmer will dim, but NOT turn OFF the fixture; you need to cut the voltage to turn them off. This means that any 0-10V to DMX adapter box will NOT allow you to turn OFF the fixtures.

The solution we use is to spec ETC Foundry devices. If possible, we spec the Mini Panels which allow for up to 8 zones per Mini Panel. These require separate line voltage inputs for each zone (or you can have a single line voltage input power multiple zones using jumpers), as it is NOT a breaker panel that will take one high amperage input and split it out to each zone. They also have the smaller Zone Controllers that we use in retrofits where a panel can't be installed. Also has useful things like Fire Panel override inputs.

The Fleenor (and others; Pathway offers one as well) 0-10V adapters are useful for integrating into older rack or wall mount dimmers that had 0-10V control inputs rather than DMX; not so useful for modern 0-10V dimmable fixtures. So if you've got an actual 0-10V DIMMER and not DIMMABLE FIXTURES, then maybe that is the correct solution.

EDIT: Lightronics also makes a DMX-controlled 0-10V panel.

[Jonathan Kok]

Another Vote for DFD/Doug Fleenor.

I have a room that just got remodeled and I have a dmx board (Chamsys QuickQ Rack) controlling the stage lights already. It was easy to add the DMX12ANL to the system to control the dimming of the led can lights.

The downside that I didn’t know beforehand is that most modern LED can lights will not turn completely off with 0 volts on the sense line. They go down to about 10 percent brightness and stop.

The old controller (demo’d in the remodel) must have also cut power at the 0V level. I need to fond some dmx controllable relay solution if I want to turn these lights completely off.

ETC Foundry.
https://www.etcconnect.com/Foundry/
Lightronics:
https://www.lightronics.com/architectural_ballast_drivers_ab0602d.html

[Stephen Swaffer]

I guess I wasn't clear.  What I have is 0-10V dimmable fixtures-the "dimmers" that were installed actually incorporated a switch plus a 0-10V output for dimming.

The DFD comes closest what I am thinking.  I will likely replace the dimmers with simple switches since if the 0-10V is disconnected it puts lights at full brightness-and will allow normal use of the switches most of the time-simply adding in the dmx dimming when dimming is desirable.  The only question I need to get the answer to is if the DFD stuff can drive eight 0-10 volt sinking loads in parallel-and the fixture manufacturer can't tell me what that load is-guess its experiment time.  So much easier when the design is done correctly before the build.

[Jonathan Kok]

I guess I wasn't clear.  What I have is 0-10V dimmable fixtures-the "dimmers" that were installed actually incorporated a switch plus a 0-10V output for dimming.

The DFD comes closest what I am thinking.  I will likely replace the dimmers with simple switches since if the 0-10V is disconnected it puts lights at full brightness-and will allow normal use of the switches most of the time-simply adding in the dmx dimming when dimming is desirable.  The only question I need to get the answer to is if the DFD stuff can drive eight 0-10 volt sinking loads in parallel-and the fixture manufacturer can't tell me what that load is-guess its experiment time.  So much easier when the design is done correctly before the build.

Makes sense. I would double-check that, on loss of DMX, the DFD will drive the 0-10V to 100%, as disconnecting DMX will not 'disconnect' the 0-10V. I suspect the fixtures require a complete disconnection (no continuity between poles) in order to drive them to 100% automatically. Disconnecting DMX--even turning off the DFD completely--will not accomplish that, I suspect.

I've used Pathway's to drive nine 0-10V lines of dimming without issue, though those were LED drivers. Can't say what the load was.

With the ETC or Lightronics devices, this isn't an issue, however control is only over DMX for the ETC one. You can use a Merge box to LTP the console vs an alternative DMX input that works with switches (multiple ways to skin that cat). The Lightronics box will take DMX directly, and/or store presets that can be recalled via their button panels.

0-10V dimming is how I request electricians install house lights these days. Dimmers are unreliable when it comes to LED, whereas 0-10V works great, and can be easily incorporated via the ETC Foundry or Lightronics box. Plus, Electricians know what 0-10V is. DMX? Not so much.

[Stephen Swaffer]

I requested 0-10V-they did fine on the fixtures which is what I had specs for-the controls-not so much, but I didn't want to try to get them to install what I knew pastor/staff wanted because I knew they wouldn't have a clue.  Perhaps the most frustrating thing is that I went and added a raceway into the dimmer j-box to get me the flexibility to change things in the future-the contractor used my raceway to pull his wires. Obviously proper communication was lacking.

[Caleb Dueck]

I guess I wasn't clear.  What I have is 0-10V dimmable fixtures-the "dimmers" that were installed actually incorporated a switch plus a 0-10V output for dimming.

The DFD comes closest what I am thinking.  I will likely replace the dimmers with simple switches since if the 0-10V is disconnected it puts lights at full brightness-and will allow normal use of the switches most of the time-simply adding in the dmx dimming when dimming is desirable.  The only question I need to get the answer to is if the DFD stuff can drive eight 0-10 volt sinking loads in parallel-and the fixture manufacturer can't tell me what that load is-guess its experiment time.  So much easier when the design is done correctly before the build.

There's 2.5 different types of lighting control. 

Dimmers in a rack or on the wall.  DMX or other low-voltage control goes in, high voltage goes in, "squeezed" high voltage comes out and goes to the fixtures. 

LED drivers ("dimmers") inside each fixture.  Low voltage control into each fixture, and high voltage non-dimmed power also into each fixture.  If the low voltage control is DMX, everything is pretty simple.  This is how all LED stage lights work.

The 0.5 option is LED drivers in each fixture, with low voltage 0-10V analog control and high voltage power in, similar to DMX.  The main difference is - 0-10V doesn't hard-cut the high voltage typically, so as the 0-10V drops (dims the lights), when it gets to full off - it also has to automatically trip a relay to hard cut the high voltage power. 

Thus for 0-10V systems, you'll want the device that outputs the 0-10V control voltage - to also have relays for the high voltage.  The one I've used most is made by ETC and relatively inexpensive. 

If you ONLY use a 0-10V controller, or DMX to 0-10V converter, without integrated relays - get ready for frustration. 

For the projects I work on (installations) - almost every time now it's DMX fixtures, with DMX control and high voltage power run to each fixture.  The only other type which is getting more common involves rack or wall mount drivers (DMX in, high voltage in, dimmed DC power out).  It's dimmed DC from the drivers to the fixtures themselves; the concept is the same as LED lights, but the drivers are remote from the physical fixture. 

[Scott Hofmann]

This device from Dove Systems could be handy if you need to control architectural "current sinking" LED 0-10 fixtures from a standard 0-10 theatre controller.

[Stephen Swaffer]

This device from Dove Systems could be handy if you need to control architectural "current sinking" LED 0-10 fixtures from a standard 0-10 theatre controller.

I looked at their website and found a device closer to exactly what I wanted-when I inquired, I got a very quick response from Rich who suggested a product they did not yet have listed that will work exactly as I need-providing both a 0-10 V sink and a relay to cut lights completely as needed.  Yes, I could get this another way-but this is a nice clean solution.

[ProSoundWeb Community]