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[Steve-White]

Gain Staging or "Unity" gain on the dbx VENU360 is being elusive.

Found this thread, similar but not exactly what I'm doing:  https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,164469.msg1515349.html#msg1515349

In terms of testing.  I ran some music through it first.

Let's start upstream a bit.  The VENU360 resides in a small mix rack with a Behringer XR12 Mixer with the rack being purpose built with a couple of Shure QLXD receivers and a Shure UA844 RF distribution amplifier.  The rack goes along with a larger sized DJ setup and is used only for the wedding ceremony.

On to initial testing - hooked up a small Denon Prime Go DJ controller and ran some music into a line input of the XR12 and ran the L&R mains of the XR12 into my computer/studio audio system mixer.  Things sounded great.  Then to continue testing I setup the VENU360 for full range and moved the XLR's feeding the studio system from the "Main" output of the XR12 to the VENU360 outputs.

Very noticeable drop in volume.  Sounded fine, just a drop in volume.  So, I hooked things up to the test bench gear this afternoon and discovered wtih things at "Unity" in the VENU360 there is a considerable loss of signal, which is consistent across the outputs 1-6.  Running 2 inputs from an XLR "Y" cable fed by an ART DTI (Dual Transformer Isolator) box.  Also use an ART DTI on the output to get things back to single ended for the scope.  Running 1KHZ sine wave through the VENU360 for testing.

Just for fun, I took a comparable class Ashly unit (3.6SP) and did the same test - output was very close to the input as expected.

There's a 10db drop in signal level with the VENU360 for some reason.  I have a couple of other VENU360's that can be compared, which is my next move.

It takes +11db increase at the input gain controls to level up the output.  It runs out of gas at 4V RMS output.

[Bill Meeks]

Maybe you have already checked this, but there are multiple places (at least two) in the VENU 360 where gain can be adjusted. There is an input fader and then a mid-routing fader. These faders are part of the set of internal mixers. Plus there are level controls on the outputs of each configured crossover.

If you have not already tried, use the VENU 360 Windows app downloadable from Harmon, configure and connect to the 360 box over the network, and check out the internal fader settings. You can also get to them via the front-panel menu system, but it's a bit awkward and time consuming in my opinion. I prefer to use the Windows app over the network.

I have a VENU 360 in our church sound system and do not notice the issue you describe.

[Steve-White]

I've found two places for gain adjustments.  Pulled another unit out of a rack and took it to the test bench - same results.

[Mike Caldwell]

Go into the utility menu on the front panel, there is a gain staging menu there.

[Steve-White]

Go into the utility menu on the front panel, there is a gain staging menu there.

I'm running the dbx Control Application on a Windows 10 64 bit laptop.  There is some kind of gain staging entry point accessible from the front panel that's not available in the control application Mike?

I'll move into a different room where I can take some screen shots with signal running through it to show levels on the metering in the control application.

Will also put up a block diagram of the test setup and rack signal flow.

The Midas MR12 is spot on as is an Ashly 3.6SP I checked.  I've looked at two of my dbx VENU360's thus far with identical results.  Doesn't appear to be a problem if I just bump up the gain in the input stage mixer within the control application.  However, it definitely looks odd and make me suspect I may be missing the obvious.

[Mike Caldwell]

I'm running the dbx Control Application on a Windows 10 64 bit laptop.  There is some kind of gain staging entry point accessible from the front panel that's not available in the control application Mike?

I'll move into a different room where I can take some screen shots with signal running through it to show levels on the metering in the control application.

Will also put up a block diagram of the test setup and rack signal flow.

The Midas MR12 is spot on as is an Ashly 3.6SP I checked.  I've looked at two of my dbx VENU360's thus far with identical results.  Doesn't appear to be a problem if I just bump up the gain in the input stage mixer within the control application.  However, it definitely looks odd and make me suspect I may be missing the obvious.

Yes that gain staging menu is only available on the front panel through the utility menu.

[Steve-White]

Yes that gain staging menu is only available on the front panel through the utility menu.

Hmmmm.....now that is interesting. 

[Steve-White]

Well I just took a tour of the input screen on one of the VENU360's - have 3 of them.

In the Utility Menu, the setting "Analog Input/Output Clip Levels" does the trick.  Input was set to +24dbu and output was set to +12dbu.

There are things in the firmware menu's and the control application that are simply how the software designer decided to label them that IMO blow wet turds against the wall.  Quirky stuff like on the "Meters" page in application everything below "0" has a - in front of it, yet going above "0" has no + sign in front of the digits.

All that being said, once familiar with a few minor idiosyncrasies will probably keep them in the racks as they sound fine and work for the intended purpose of system integration - subs, no-subs, delays, basic system alignment, etc.

Thanks for leading me out of the forest.  One thing I noticed is the input and output settings don't use the all the same scales in the choices - i.e. input to +24db and output only has up to +22db so it has a built-in loss of 2db which can be easily compensated for with settings.  However, there are +14dbu choices on both Input and Output that I chose and viola unity gain.

This has been an interesting discovery - glad I posted, saved me some time and frustration.  Perhaps if I had read the operators manual? 

Thanks Mike!

[Mike Caldwell]

My guess is the gain settings are kind of "hidden" on purpose and not available on the remote app.

I use a fair number of 360's in my systems, for the mains I drive them directly with AES from the mixer.

[Steve-White]

My guess is the gain settings are kind of "hidden" on purpose and not available on the remote app.

I use a fair number of 360's in my systems, for the mains I drive them directly with AES from the mixer.

After thinking it over, agreed on it being a shop or test bench setting and definitely not needed out in the field.  Initial setup parameter.  I have 3x VENU360's and 6x PA2's.  3x PA2's are used for bi-amping monitors and 2x are in my home system in the den, last one is on the computer/studio system.  Listening to a PA2 right now from the tri-amped den system.  The other one in the den tri-amps the center channel for the HT setup.  The PA2's don't get any love around here, but I find them very useful for many things.  Then again, I do all my own setups, no powered gear, no passive crossovers, don't use presets - the two powered subwoofers I own, one sits at the back end of the hallway for that area of the house and the other one is out in my shop.  So, I have "some" powered gear. 

All the loudspeaker processing in mains is Ashly - 3.6SP,'s NE8800's and a NE24.24 for system control/integration when necessary.

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