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Author Topic: Yamaha Tio vs Rio D2 (2nd Generation) noise-floor performance  (Read 415 times)

Andrien (No Last Name)

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Yamaha Tio vs Rio D2 (2nd Generation) noise-floor performance
« on: September 18, 2023, 06:10:48 AM »

Hi, does Rio 2nd generation have remarkably better noise performance compared to Tio? We do a little test between Tio1608 and Midas DL32, and the Tios actually having quite a bad noise floor performance. Would upgrade to Rio improve the noise in general? Appreciate input from people who have both stagebox and could do a simple test to compare both.

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Art Welter

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Re: Yamaha Tio vs Rio D2 (2nd Generation) noise-floor performance
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2023, 07:37:06 PM »

Hi, does Rio 2nd generation have remarkably better noise performance compared to Tio? We do a little test between Tio1608 and Midas DL32, and the Tios actually having quite a bad noise floor performance. Would upgrade to Rio improve the noise in general? Appreciate input from people who have both stagebox and could do a simple test to compare both.
Andrien,

The spec sheets for the Rio1608-D2 and the Tio 1608-D both list Hum & Noise as:
128 dBu typ., Equivalent Input Noise, Input Gain= Max.
88 dBu Residual output noise, ST master off.
Based on that alone, I wouldn't expect a difference in noise between the two.

Appears to be a noise spike at around 1kHz in your screen posts plus a harmonic around 2kHz visible above the white noise in the lower -36.8 noise shot.
Were both stage boxes both the same distance from noise sources like computer power supplies, switching amplifiers, LED lights?

Did you verify the gain in your tests was actually +60 and +58 dB?
Was the same source and output impedance used for both tests?

Art
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Andrien (No Last Name)

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Re: Yamaha Tio vs Rio D2 (2nd Generation) noise-floor performance
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2023, 12:08:45 AM »

Andrien,

The spec sheets for the Rio1608-D2 and the Tio 1608-D both list Hum & Noise as:
128 dBu typ., Equivalent Input Noise, Input Gain= Max.
88 dBu Residual output noise, ST master off.
Based on that alone, I wouldn't expect a difference in noise between the two.

Appears to be a noise spike at around 1kHz in your screen posts plus a harmonic around 2kHz visible above the white noise in the lower -36.8 noise shot.
Were both stage boxes both the same distance from noise sources like computer power supplies, switching amplifiers, LED lights?

Did you verify the gain in your tests was actually +60 and +58 dB?
Was the same source and output impedance used for both tests?

Art

Both are connected from the Tio output using siggen from StudioOne send via Dante and duplicated over output 1 and 2, and are recaptured back using Steinberg UR824 due to limitation on X32 USB only having 24bit depth. We do found that setting the gain to +41db on Tio and trim it up does help the noise floor by quite a margin but overall Tio still have more noise compared to DL32 (we detect a peak noise reduction about 9DB on the meter). I have to admit the test is not scientific enough without proper measuring devices (we send a Sine wave and set the gain on USB/Dante to be as close as possible, and then route it to UR824 and recalibrate the signal to be equivalent on different preamp level).
My friend is considering upgrading to DM7 from his current M32 and iLive setup, but his experience on Yamaha TF5 is the noise floor tend to be higher than M32+DL32 setup thus is why we are doing a simple comparison test. Looking at the EIN number it seems both Tio and Rio gen 2 have similar noise so it seems that won't change. We also found that setting at 0db gain DL32 has exactly the same input detected while the Tio will register 2Db less (e.g if we set the generator @-26db the RTA will register -26Db too while Tio will register -28Db). This is why the gain set on Tio is 2Db higher.

In regards to the spike on 2khz it seems to be caused by DL16, as we did similar test with X32 and it produce similar harmonic distortion at that gain. We do not see similar behavior on the Tio1608 except if we push the siggen higher.

Thanks for you comment, we might plan to rent Rio1608-D2 and do a similar test. Our finding is actually quite similar to the test done by Dave Rat on his QL1 vs X32 test that we perceive the Tio to have higher noise floor than M32 but we do not have a true calibrated equipment to verify further.
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Re: Yamaha Tio vs Rio D2 (2nd Generation) noise-floor performance
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2023, 12:08:45 AM »


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