Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Brian Adams]

Thanks for the replies. I get that the rider is what it is, but we always end up negotiating exceptions due to the limitations of our venue being a boat. For example, our montors for normal shows (with the booth up in the crows nest) are an SRX815 over a KW181 (L&R). Riders regularly request TX headphones, but they cannot physically fit in the space. My understanding is all these things are normally agreed upon ahead of time.

Additionally, it isn't possible to do a "traditional" in the rounds PA as there's no way to safey rig up the PA. Again, limitations of the venue. But these replies have got me thinking that perhaps the issue was moreso the miscommunication than the gear itself.

Attached is a pic of the setup, as seen from where the gear is normally setup (PA is flown to the left & right).

I guess the root of my question is more technical/hypotetical: on a setup where you have a DJ playing *in front of* the PA, what is the purpose or benefit of having monitors? In my mind it would acually be counter-prodctive to have them on such a setup.

On one hand, I agree with you. Monitors would be tough in that space, and maybe not necessary since it's in front of the PA. However, it's not up to you to decide what parts of the rider aren't beneficial. If you see issues like that, you need to talk it over with the artist's management to find an alternative solution. Maybe that solution is no monitors, maybe it's wedges, maybe it's Texas headphones even though it "doesn't make sense." The point is, it's not your call, you need to discuss it with the act before making those decisions. Pretty much everything in a rider is negotiable, but the act is always going to be unhappy if you make major substitutions without talking to them about it. You've done this gig before, and they should probably trust your judgement, but don't surprise them on the day of the show.

I can definitely see why they were upset. And while that could have been minimized if they'd been there for soundcheck, I'm not sure I've ever had a DJ show up for a soundcheck, so I wouldn't count on it.

Again, I don't think you're completely wrong about the situation, but you definitely didn't approach it correctly. Not the biggest deal in the world, and I'm sure it'll work out differently next time.

Also, it's in the ROUND. No S. It just semantics, for sure, but you'd be better off to use the correct terminology, especially around some of the old pros here.

[Jeremy Young]

Communication in advance is key; in case that point hasn't been hit home enough yet.

As for the purpose of the monitors; as others have said DJ's need to hear the beat on time.  From your photo, I can't tell how far ahead of the PA the DJ is but every (milli)second counts when it comes to timing, so if that's 40' of distance it won't be possible to beat match using the PA as a reference. I'm not a DJ nor an expert at what magic number is acceptable, but my best guess is that's the root of the issue the artist was upset about. 

Another possibility is that they want to listen to cue's (without the audience hearing) ahead of a transition; and without a separate system or headphones, they cannot do their job.  This is despite their best efforts to ensure the equipment they need to perform the job they were hired to do was on-site (by including it in their rider).  They arrived and the needs were not met, and here we are talking about whether or not it's a big deal.  It was a big deal to them obviously.   

[Brian Jojade]

Yikes. That setup looks insane.  Certainly doesn't look like a space I'd want to work in, EVER.

Riders are a fun thing. Often times, they're just template documents that get sent out regardless of the venue and location.  Being on a boat obviously will make some interesting challenges that most riders won't have taken into consideration.  Based on that experience, you should definitely get into the practice of opening a line of communication directly with the artist/Manager whenever possible.  Dealing with this stuff BEFORE show time is always easier.

[Alec Spence]

Dealing with this stuff BEFORE show time is always easier.

This.

At my 350 cap club level, I would never expect any rider non-conformity to be a major issue on the night.  However, the brief discussion that occurs at some point when advancing usually brings forward the response of "that'll be fine", as well as building a positive relationsip.  On the odd times when it does bring up an issue, there's time to work on it or negotiate a compromise.

[Brian Jojade]

Of course, there are always the challenges of artists not willing to communicate with you, or throwing last minute changes at you expecting you to do stuff that wasn't listed on the rider. But, those changes can be denied if not feasible, or have an additional last minute change charge that the promoter and artist can argue who will cover the charges.

[Tim Weaver]

I guess the root of my question is more technical/hypotetical: on a setup where you have a DJ playing *in front of* the PA, what is the purpose or benefit of having monitors? In my mind it would acually be counter-prodctive to have them on such a setup.

Because sometimes the DJ might want to listen to something and not have it come out of the PA until he's ready for it. This is what they do with headphones, but some do it with monitors. Cue up the next track in the monitors, crossfade it in when the specific part of the next song aligns to the outgoing song. This is DJ 101.

[Mal Brown]

If that boat were a pier, it would be shut down in a heart beat around here.

[Russell Ault]

If that boat were a pier, it would be shut down in a heart beat around here.

In fairness, I'm guessing that such a pier (a) wouldn't necessarily be built out of fireproof materials and (b) wouldn't be carrying life jackets and life boats.

FWIW, between the OP's photo and signature link, I believe the vessel in question is the "Provincetown II", which owners Bay State Cruise Company list as having a passenger capacity of 900 (i.e. the few-hundred people in the photo is well below what the ship was designed to accommodate).

-Russ

[ProSoundWeb Community]