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[Stephen Swaffer]

My vote is for a non-existent or corroded ground connection-as others have said giving a "phantom" reading of 60 volts.  Functional?  Maybe.  Safe? Nope.

[John Roberts {JR}]

My vote is for a non-existent or corroded ground connection-as others have said giving a "phantom" reading of 60 volts.  Functional?  Maybe.  Safe? Nope.

GFCI outlets can still protect meat puppets without a solid ground connection.

Sure do wish someone could make this tester a reality…

I threw enough of my own time and money down this black hole. I don't need to start another charity project. I published my design so it is free for the world to use.

Cheap three lamp testers retail for less than $10 I would have a hard time selling mine for 2-3x that and recovering NRE in my lifetime, not to mention advertising and marketing expenses. Consumers would need a motivation to pay several x. 

The good news is that there are other remedies, like GFCI outlet technology that can save lives.

JR

[Kemper Watson]

My vote is for a non-existent or corroded ground connection-as others have said giving a "phantom" reading of 60 volts.  Functional?  Maybe.  Safe? Nope.

Homeowner said that previous bands had used it. I tend to err on the side of caution. We reseached and found three outlets on different breakers.

[John Roberts {JR}]

Homeowner said that previous bands had used it. I tend to err on the side of caution. We reached and found three outlets on different breakers.

I have seen plug in power drops with GFCI outlet protection built in. I would have no concern for human safety plugging a GFCI strip into a dodgy outlet.

JR

PS: I am surely repeating myself, but the homeowner needs at least a GFCI for any outdoor outlet... one with a solid ground is also beneficial. My house is 2-wire, but so are my outdoor outlets. 

[frank kayser]

GFCI outlets can still protect meat puppets without a solid ground connection.

I threw enough of my own time and money down this black hole. I don't need to start another charity project. I published my design so it is free for the world to use.

Cheap three lamp testers retail for less than $10 I would have a hard time selling mine for 2-3x that and recovering NRE in my lifetime, not to mention advertising and marketing expenses. Consumers would need a motivation to pay several x. 

The good news is that there are other remedies, like GFCI outlet technology that can save lives.

JR

JR,
I followed your journey developing this tester a couple years ago. 
I remember you gave away some of your prototypes, and made available circuit boards from what I remember was a minimum order.
Quite generous.  I would have snagged a board, but I have no experience working with SMDs.
You explained then why you would not, could not pursue the project further, with well thought out reasoning.
You explained none of the big guys wanted to run with it.


My statement was a clumsy re-affirmation of what I believe to be a great effort and end product.  Kudos, if you will.


I still wish someone (else) would advance your work through the maze and make it available on the market.


frank

[John Roberts {JR}]

JR,
I followed your journey developing this tester a couple years ago. 
I remember you gave away some of your prototypes, and made available circuit boards from what I remember was a minimum order.
Quite generous.  I would have snagged a board, but I have no experience working with SMDs.
You explained then why you would not, could not pursue the project further, with well thought out reasoning.
You explained none of the big guys wanted to run with it.


My statement was a clumsy re-affirmation of what I believe to be a great effort and end product.  Kudos, if you will.


I still wish someone (else) would advance your work through the maze and make it available on the market.


frank

It would be a nightmare (uphill struggle) to market it. How many consumers would embrace having to touch an electrical conductor on the tester (I used the human body as a relative ground reference for detection)?

Ideas are cheap. Life is short...

JR

[Jonathan Johnson]

It would be a nightmare (uphill struggle) to market it. How many consumers would embrace having to touch an electrical conductor on the tester (I used the human body as a relative ground reference for detection)?

Ideas are cheap. Life is short...

JR

Yeah, I would. But then I understand electricity better than most. Not better than all; just most (and I'm including everybody in the world in "most" so it's not a high bar).

Before non-contact voltage detectors were invented, I discovered I could use a cheap neon test lamp and plug one lead into a receptacle slot and grab the other lead with my fingers to get it to dimly light. Useful for determining which wire is hot in an old 2-wire outlet with no ground and rubber-and-cloth insulated wires where the color has faded away.

Just hope the current-limiting resistor doesn't short out.

[Stephen Swaffer]

I have seen plug in power drops with GFCI outlet protection built in. I would have no concern for human safety plugging a GFCI strip into a dodgy outlet.

JR

PS: I am surely repeating myself, but the homeowner needs at least a GFCI for any outdoor outlet... one with a solid ground is also beneficial. My house is 2-wire, but so are my outdoor outlets.

I would agree 100%-use an inline GFCI and you are protected, even without a ground.

This 30 amp receptacle was likely code compliant when installed-the last code update now requires even these to be gfci protected.  That said, I am pretty sure the only time I have ever been paid to bring an existing install into current code compliance has been in the context of a real estate transfer and the perception or reality that someone else is footing the bill.  Safety seems to be a low priority with a high percentage of people.

[Tim McCulloch]

I would agree 100%-use an inline GFCI and you are protected, even without a ground.

This 30 amp receptacle was likely code compliant when installed-the last code update now requires even these to be gfci protected.  That said, I am pretty sure the only time I have ever been paid to bring an existing install into current code compliance has been in the context of a real estate transfer and the perception or reality that someone else is footing the bill.  Safety seems to be a low priority with a high percentage of people.

And I'd submit that safety is a low priority because very, very few "average people" can recall any incident of personal injury or property damage (beyond a bit of embarrassment) sustained from electricity.  We've made stuff so safe that it takes multiple, compounding failures to result in injury or death in many cases.  Perhaps we need some more blood and guts -  current exit wounds, missing flesh and exposed bones to influence folks to take electricity seriously?

[John Roberts {JR}]

Yeah, I would. But then I understand electricity better than most. Not better than all; just most (and I'm including everybody in the world in "most" so it's not a high bar).

Before non-contact voltage detectors were invented, I discovered I could use a cheap neon test lamp and plug one lead into a receptacle slot and grab the other lead with my fingers to get it to dimly light. Useful for determining which wire is hot in an old 2-wire outlet with no ground and rubber-and-cloth insulated wires where the color has faded away.

Just hope the current-limiting resistor doesn't short out.

Exactly,,, the same principle...an old school trick (those neon lamp testers generally have 100k resistors in series, resistors like that rarely fail shorted, more likely to fail open).

You can do the same trick with a modern high impedance VOM by grasping one lead while probing with the other. Make sure it is switched into voltage mode. In current mode it could zip you if you probe significant voltage, and contact a return path... 

JR

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