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Author Topic: Feedback issues  (Read 2554 times)

JamesJudson

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Feedback issues
« on: June 03, 2023, 03:35:39 AM »

hey guys, I am a volunteer sound guy for my church. I am in no wise a pro. Our church is big having two galleries. We don't have acoustic treatment.Everywhere you can see concrete walls. Upto 1000 people attend every sunday. During mid-week service on wednesday and saturday only 300 people attend. We are experiencing mic feedback problem. We tried asking our pastor to speak little louder but he said he has throat ache if he speaks loud. Is there a solution for this?
Is there anything I can do about it? I need professional help.  I also see that many reverbrent fields like football arena, gyms with no acoustics have there sound system without feedback, or am I tripping? Also can anyone leave a link to articles of acoustics or something that can help me with finding critical distance and assessing reverbrent field, something like that which can help me.
thanks.
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Dave Pluke

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Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2023, 10:49:13 AM »

We don't have acoustic treatment.Everywhere you can see concrete walls. Upto 1000 people attend every sunday. During mid-week service on wednesday and saturday only 300 people attend. We are experiencing mic feedback problem.

That's a challenge. 700 additional people can soak up a lot of sound.

For starters, can you detail the type and model of microphone(s) being used and type and placement of speakers?

Dave
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2023, 05:07:31 PM »

What mic is the pastor using?
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JamesJudson

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Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2023, 02:35:07 AM »

That's a challenge. 700 additional people can soak up a lot of sound.

For starters, can you detail the type and model of microphone(s) being used and type and placement of speakers?

Dave
We are using DPA gooseneck tabletop mic for wednesday and saturday, and DPA headset mic on sundays.
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JamesJudson

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Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2023, 02:37:00 AM »

We are using DPA gooseneck tabletop mic for wednesday and saturday, and DPA headset mic on sundays. We placed our speakers next to the side walls.
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Steve-White

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Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2023, 08:02:46 AM »

It's understood you need immediate relief.  However, don't loose sight that some kind of abatement will need to be implemented.  Honestly, members putting up some painted square egg crates on weekends would probably net huge improvements based upon a few HOW's I've heard acoustics in and it's hard to understand dialog.

Seek help from the members, find some willing to volunteer some time.

In a poor environment, regardless of what you do with the system or how skilled you are as an operator - it's still bandaids on cancer without addressing the room issues.
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John Schalk

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Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2023, 11:15:14 AM »

We are using DPA gooseneck tabletop mic for wednesday and saturday, and DPA headset mic on sundays. We placed our speakers next to the side walls.
Can you provide us with more details on the number and type of loudspeakers that you are using?  Also, what is the general layout of your worship space?  Is this a permanent sanctuary or are you in a temporary space?  How much ceiling height do you have to work with?  Is there a stage?  Carpet on the floor?  Are your speakers permanently installed or deployed on stands?

The most basic rule for sound system design/placement is to aim the speaker(s) at the audience while trying to minimize the amount of sound that will "hit" the walls and ceiling.  For speakers on stands, that translates into getting the loudspeaker up as high as possible, and then tilting it down and panning it towards the center of the room (for a basic two speaker setup.)  Some powered loudspeakers have dual position pole-mount cups that include a downward tilt option.  The Yamaha DZR series is one example that has this useful feature.
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Art Welter

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Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2023, 05:25:51 PM »

We are using DPA gooseneck tabletop mic for wednesday and saturday, and DPA headset mic on sundays.
James,

A tabletop gooseneck mic also picks up reflected sound from the table, which cause peaks and dips in the response (comb filtering), reducing intelligibility.

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/the-basics-about-comb-filtering-and-how-to-avoid-it

Each doubling of distance from the source (speaker's mouth) to the mic element reduces available gain before feedback (GBF) by -6dB.

The pastor is likely further away from the tabletop mic reducing GBF and intelligibility, try using the headset on Wednesday and Saturday.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2023, 07:10:34 AM »

With the DPA gooseneck table top mic how far away is the mic from the person speaking. DPA makes some gooseneck mics that are only 6 or 8 inches long. Read Art's post about GBF.

Take note about the speaker placement and room treatment post as well.

In the end there is only so much with hardware and equipment that can be done for a soft spoken person.

Brian Jojade

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Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2023, 05:56:22 PM »

Everyone has hit on the important stuff. If the room is an acoustical nightmare, it's almost impossible to overcome that with technology.  Sound absorption will help intelligibility tremendously as it will reduce the echo.

Placement and quantity of speakers can make a big difference.  One loud speaker will be making a lot of sound and lots of echo.  Lots of smaller speakers can run quieter and as such wouldn't create as much echo.  How many you'd need to overcome the echo of the building might be unrealistic though.

Now, if feedback is truly the only issue and if they speak loudly and you're happy with that then you kind of know your solution.   You need the sound getting into the mic to be louder than the reflecting sounds from the speakers.

Adjusting speaker placement so as to reduce sound on stage can help.  Sound treatment in areas around the mic position sometimes are enough to give you that extra boost you need.

Mic positioning to the person talking makes a HUGE difference.  One weird thing I've noticed with lectern mics is that the smaller the mic, the further the speaker wants to be from it.  Eg, if I throw an SM57 on a gooseneck, they'll talk right into it. If it's a tiny microphone, they pull back away from it.  Not sure why that psychology exists, but whatever.  So, generally, I end up getting better results with the ugly SM57 instead of the sleek podium mics.

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Brian Jojade

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Feedback issues
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2023, 05:56:22 PM »


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