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Author Topic: Drum Channel Layout  (Read 1126 times)

Nathan Riddle

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Drum Channel Layout
« on: March 20, 2023, 05:53:19 PM »

What do you think of these drum channel layouts?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JYzyhGq3wntzM3x48F9DnHDYWCWmNEzznP0U5J3pCyo/edit?usp=sharing

My plan is to have Elite Core build me a custom drum snake that makes deploying drum mics silly fast.

For Context:
-Triggers are for myself (gates mainly)
-Tracks, loops, click, drum machine, etc. Are all on other channels.

For reference, various drum setups.
https://drumhelper.com/learning-drums/popular-drum-setup-ideas-and-configurations-with-diagrams/

For my purposes.
How often I see a typical setup on one of my gigs.
65% - 4-Piece Drum Setup
30% - 5-Piece Drum Setup
3%   - 6-Piece Drum Setup
1%   - 3-Piece Drum Setup
1%   - 7-Piece Drum Setup
« Last Edit: March 21, 2023, 02:34:19 PM by Nathan Riddle »
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Matthew Knischewsky

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2023, 06:37:16 PM »


What do you think of these drum channel layouts?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JYzyhGq3wntzM3x48F9DnHDYWCWmNEzznP0U5J3pCyo/edit?usp=sharing

My plan is to have Elite Core build me a custom drum snake that makes deploying drum mics silly fast.

The only one that is close to a "standard" is Option 1 and even then... I rarely see triggers being used and when they are it's not really a festival patch scenario. Kick in/out, Snare top/bottom, Hat, 4 toms, 2 overheads and a spare (Ride, S2...) is a pretty standard medium sized festival 12 channel patch. Leave 13-16 available for additional inputs if necessary: Tracks, sampler... that's what I'm seeing.

I tend to prefer several smaller looms for drum kit because the more channels there are the more it seems to get tangled up as the day goes on or just not work for some kits. I often find a dozen 10' mic cables and a 12 channel labelled snake box is faster than a loom.

(edit- I meant 2 overheads)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 11:11:41 PM by Matthew Knischewsky »
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2023, 08:18:34 PM »

When you say "custom snake" what does that do that means you have to pre plan your inputs?

I love a good drum snake, but I wouldn't do anything other than channel numbers on it. You can label it with tape any way you want to if its for a tour or whatever.

I tend to use whatever 16x4 snake is around. Right now we have a 5 piece kit, double miced kick and snare, and overheads. Add to that a click channel and a "toys pad" (Alesis drum pad thing) in stereo and I have a stereo input for an ipad/phone in case they want to play tracks. That's 15 inputs for me.

Returns are always usable for hardwired ears.

K in
K out
Snr Top
Snr Bot
Hat
Rack
Rack
Floor
OHL
OHR
Click
Alesis L
Alesis R
iPod Track Click
iPod Tracks
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Thomas Le

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2023, 08:49:00 PM »

Doesn't whirlwind have a drum snake? Unless it's expensive...
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2023, 09:06:29 PM »

Doesn't whirlwind have a drum snake? Unless it's expensive...

The regular one is a pretty good deal. The multipinned drum snake is kinda pricey, but it is nice.
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Dave Pluke

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2023, 10:10:10 PM »

The only one that is close to a "standard" is Option 1 and even then... I rarely see triggers being used and when they are it's not really a festival patch scenario. Kick in/out, Snare top/bottom, Hat, 4 toms, 4 overheads and a spare (Ride, S2...) is a pretty standard medium sized festival 12 channel patch. Leave 13-16 available for additional inputs if necessary: Tracks, sampler... that's what I'm seeing.

Agreed.

Dave
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Rick Earl

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2023, 09:24:27 AM »


What do you think of these drum channel layouts?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JYzyhGq3wntzM3x48F9DnHDYWCWmNEzznP0U5J3pCyo/edit?usp=sharing

My plan is to have Elite Core build me a custom drum snake that makes deploying drum mics silly fast.

Triggers and other electronics usually stay grouped together in a rack and can be picked up with a standard Fan to Fan snake.  The one drummer I work with with a lot of electronics has it all in one rack, including his hardwired ears.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2023, 02:49:13 PM »

For Context:
-Triggers are for myself (gates mainly)
-Tracks, loops, click, drum machine, etc. Are all on other channels.

For reference, various drum setups.
https://drumhelper.com/learning-drums/popular-drum-setup-ideas-and-configurations-with-diagrams/

For my purposes.
How often I see a typical setup on one of my gigs.
65% - 4-Piece Drum Setup [option 00]
30% - 5-Piece Drum Setup [option 00]
3%   - 6-Piece Drum Setup [option 1]
1%   - 3-Piece Drum Setup [option 00]
1%   - 7-Piece Drum Setup [option 1]

I tend to prefer several smaller looms for drum kit because the more channels there are the more it seems to get tangled up as the day goes on or just not work for some kits. I often find a dozen 10' mic cables and a 12 channel labelled snake box is faster than a loom.

Hmm, good point. This is why I posed the question. Needed some more opinions on the matter.

So maybe (from drum perspective):
Loom1 (4ch) K-in, K-out, SnTop, SnBot
Loom2 (4ch) T1, T1-Trig, T2, T2-Trig

Or (from drum perspective):
Loom1 (4ch) K-in, K-out, T1, T1-Trig
Loom2 (3ch) SnTop, SnBot, SnTrig
Loom3 (4ch) T2, T2-Trig, T3, T3-Trig

When you say "custom snake" what does that do that means you have to pre plan your inputs?

Yes, I have never changed my base input patch in 5 years.
I rarely need more than option 00 [4 piece kit]

I love a good drum snake, but I wouldn't do anything other than channel numbers on it. You can label it with tape any way you want to if its for a tour or whatever.

Why label something manually that is always the same?
You can always refer to the number, but I'd rather it be fast and easy to do.

I want to get away from running 12x 25' XLR's to my DX168 every time I setup a silly drum-set that has the exact same setup every time for any band ever (4-piece).

I tend to use whatever 16x4 snake is around. Right now we have a 5 piece kit, double miced kick and snare, and overheads. Add to that a click channel and a "toys pad" (Alesis drum pad thing) in stereo and I have a stereo input for an ipad/phone in case they want to play tracks. That's 15 inputs for me.

Returns are always usable for hardwired ears.

I use personal mixers (ME-1, PoE).
Haven't used a return in 4 years.

K in
K out
Snr Top
Snr Bot
Hat
Rack
Rack
Floor
OHL
OHR

Click
Alesis L
Alesis R
iPod Track Click
iPod Tracks

This is option 00 (simplest deployment) without triggers or tracks.

---

Triggers and other electronics usually stay grouped together in a rack and can be picked up with a standard Fan to Fan snake.  The one drummer I work with with a lot of electronics has it all in one rack, including his hardwired ears.

Interesting. Thanks!
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2023, 02:57:50 PM »

Brainstorming this a bit.

Let's simplify.

While I like the idea of having a festival setup that handles all types of deployments.

That's expensive and unwarranted when 65% of my gigs are just the basics.

While I think removing the 3 triggers would simplify, I think if they were loomed in with the snake it'd be fast & easy to setup just as much as the mics.

K-In
K-Out
S-Top
S-Bot
S-Trig
Hat
T1
T1-Trig
T2
T2-Trig
OHL
OHR

These are the channels the custom loomed snake will use.
Extra mic'd elements can have an XLR run to them.
Board patch will always stay the same (fully involved)

I like the idea of multiple looms for easier moving about.
I can see a scenario where when switching out drum sets (I don't do this often) this would be advantageous.

Loom1 (2ch) - K-in, K-out
Loom2 (4ch) - SnTop, SnBot, SnTrig, Hat
Loom3 (2ch) T1, T1-Trig
Loom4 (2ch) T2, T2-Trig


There are now 3 new tabs (sheets) in the spreadsheet.
Option A,B,C
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JYzyhGq3wntzM3x48F9DnHDYWCWmNEzznP0U5J3pCyo/edit?usp=sharing
« Last Edit: March 21, 2023, 03:48:58 PM by Nathan Riddle »
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Alec Spence

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2023, 10:15:29 AM »

The best think I ever did was make up a mini drum loom - 4 way multicore, right angle XLRs at the mic end on short ~1m tails, and colour coded either end.

I use it for the core of the kit, whatever's closest together.  And then singles for the rest. 6 way would have been nicer, but couldnt' find that easily, and 8 way would become too chunky.  Just tidying up that core achieves a lot, and I'm not worried about not being able to reach distant floor toms with my loom.
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Matt Vivlamore

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2023, 12:03:30 PM »

Years ago when I was working with the Wedding band, I built a 12ch drum snake using CPC's disconnects for their drum kit and had a rack panel for quick set-ups.  Since then it's pretty much has stayed the same and seems to still fit my needs.  I have a stage box and a 25' extension; with the 25' extension I can home run it to the Stage Box or take out the 25' chunk and plug it directly into a 20ch drop snake (tag other backline into that).

My Channel Layout is:
1) Kick
2) Snare
3) HH
4) Tom1
5) Tom2
6) Floor Tom
7) OH
8. Tracks
9) spare (kick2)
10) spare (snare bottom)
11) spare (OH2)
12) spare (monitor return)
        (The last 5ch's are short lengths). 


Hopefully the link works: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=542397011333255&set=a.10158427942032452
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Dave Bednarski

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2023, 06:58:12 AM »

I've resigned myself to the following in my default start file/layout and stage.  Depending on the day, a Whirlwind DrumDrop or a straight Whirlwind MINI 12. 

Patch Sheet: https://lehighlive.s3.amazonaws.com/2023%20-%20Blank%20Patch.xlsx

Kick In
Kick Out
Snare Top
Snare Bottom
Hi-Hats
Rack 1
Rack 2
Floor 1
Floor 2 - TBD DOS
Overhead SR
Overhead SL
Spare / Drum Vocal

Triggers, pads, and other hocus-pocus can ride on another box that usually snags some midstage amps/backline. 
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2023, 08:28:09 AM »

What do you think of these drum channel layouts?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JYzyhGq3wntzM3x48F9DnHDYWCWmNEzznP0U5J3pCyo/edit?usp=sharing

My plan is to have Elite Core build me a custom drum snake that makes deploying drum mics silly fast.

For Context:
-Triggers are for myself (gates mainly)
-Tracks, loops, click, drum machine, etc. Are all on other channels.

For reference, various drum setups.
https://drumhelper.com/learning-drums/popular-drum-setup-ideas-and-configurations-with-diagrams/

For my purposes.
How often I see a typical setup on one of my gigs.
65% - 4-Piece Drum Setup
30% - 5-Piece Drum Setup
3%   - 6-Piece Drum Setup
1%   - 3-Piece Drum Setup
1%   - 7-Piece Drum Setup

Rather than use drum snake with various length cables which can sometimes get tangled up, I find it faster to use a prelabeled drop snake and store my drum mics with the mic cables attached to the mics.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2023, 09:39:58 AM »

I like:
After vocals, guitars, keys and whatnots..
List subject to change on band requirements and venue size

10 Bass
11 Kick in
12 Kick out (if used)
13 Snare (Rarely use bottom. Placement is everything. My ND-308 picks up the springs easily)
14 Snare FX
15 Hat
16 Rack 1
17 Rack 2
18 Rack 3
19 Floor 1
20 Floor 2
21 Floor 3 (if used)
22 O-head one side
23 o-head other side  ::)
24 submix of toys, if used L
25 submix of toys, if used R

Chris
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2023, 03:11:29 PM »

My plan is to have Elite Core build me a custom drum snake that makes deploying drum mics silly fast.

This makes sense on a specific drum kit, but invariably ends up just being wrong for the kit that the drummer brought for today's show.

A drop snake set next to the kick means just using short patch cables to get where you need.  An assortment of 5 or 10 foot XLRs then is all you need to connect each mic.  It can actually be easier to just grab a cable and patch vs having to sort through which connector is needed from the bundle at the end of the snake.
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Steve Eudaly

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2023, 03:31:38 PM »

A drop snake set next to the kick means just using short patch cables to get where you need.  An assortment of 5 or 10 foot XLRs then is all you need to connect each mic.  It can actually be easier to just grab a cable and patch vs having to sort through which connector is needed from the bundle at the end of the snake.

+1

In the world of one-offs, a premade drum loom is going to do more harm than good.

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2023, 07:22:15 PM »

+1

In the world of one-offs, a premade drum loom is going to do more harm than good.

Another +1.

Drum looms need "No More Tangles" conditioning because their nature is to become dreadlocks.

If the loom stays with the drum kit, fine, but like Steve said, in one-off world they're a big pain.
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Re: Drum Channel Layout
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2023, 07:22:15 PM »


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