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[Nathan West]

I've got something puzzling - we have an Sq7 - we have snake that runs to the Pulpit are various areas around -
I plug in a Radial Direct Box  to any channel on the snake and it doesn't work - I plug the same box into the Mixer
directly and it works.

I tried 5 direct boxes - 3 Radials (passive) and 2 Behringers (passive) and none worked. I tried a Whirlwind EDB-1 Direct Box and it works.

I'm mystified.

[John Roberts {JR}]

check for pin one continuity...

JR

[Nathan West]

check for pin one continuity...

It wouldn't work at the board if that was the case - and a microphone plugged into the XLR works fine - not to mention 5 commonly used Direct Boxes and 6th one worked.
I'm telling you - this has me puzzeled.

[Mike Caldwell]

I actually like puzzles like this!

Same cable for all the testing, even with the mic?
What model are the other DI's?
I assume the snake is a multipair copper analog all the way back to the board.

Funny that the very budget Whirlwind did work!

Pin one shouldn't matter on a passive DI provided the cable is wired correctly.

[Ike Zimbel]

I've got something puzzling - we have an Sq7 - we have snake that runs to the Pulpit are various areas around -
I plug in a Radial Direct Box  to any channel on the snake and it doesn't work - I plug the same box into the Mixer
directly and it works.

I tried 5 direct boxes - 3 Radials (passive) and 2 Behringers (passive) and none worked. I tried a Whirlwind EDB-1 Direct Box and it works.

I'm mystified.

A few questions:
1) New snake, or been in the hall for years?
2) Commercially made snake, or wired by a congregation member with an EE?
3) Do/have microphones worked on this snake in the past?
3a) If "yes", dynamic, condenser, or both?
4) Does "doesn't work" mean no sound, or weak and "thin" sound?
5) What was your test signal for the DI's?
6) Is the snake XLR-XLR, or one of those newfangled analog audio over RJ45 breakout dealies?

[Mike Caldwell]

2) Commercially made snake, or wired by a congregation member with an EE?

6) Is the snake XLR-XLR, or one of those newfangled analog audio over RJ45 breakout dealies?

2 - I sense a bit of sarcasm between the words.

6 - I'm too oldfangled to buy into those breakout dealies.

[John Roberts {JR}]

It wouldn't work at the board if that was the case - and a microphone plugged into the XLR works fine - not to mention 5 commonly used Direct Boxes and 6th one worked.
I'm telling you - this has me puzzeled.

If the snake has pin one open, phantom power would not work... Is the mic that works dynamic, or using phantom power?

Another fairly obvious test, do they work using a single known good XLR cable? Of course they will, but this just confirms that the snake is funny. 

JR

[Nathan West]

If the snake has pin one open, phantom power would not work... Is the mic that works dynamic, or using phantom power?

Another fairly obvious test, do they work using a single known good XLR cable? Of course they will, but this just confirms that the snake is funny. 

The Microphones were both Dynamic and a condenser - I was thinking the same thing - all the DIs were passive so they ignore phantom power.

[John Roberts {JR}]

The Microphones were both Dynamic and a condenser - I was thinking the same thing - all the DIs were passive so they ignore phantom power.

So just to be clear, a phantom powered mic does work, and passive DIs don't work? 

Did you try a known good single XLR cable?

JR

[Nathan West]

So just to be clear, a phantom powered mic does work, and passive DIs don't work? 

Did you try a known good single XLR cable?

Yes the Condenser and Dynamic Mics works - The Whirlwind Direct Box works - the Radial and Behringer DIs don't work - and I tried it on multiple sends in different zones -
the XLR was fine as it worked with the Condenser,Dynamic and Whirlwind DI.

I'm scratching my head over this - there seems to be no reason to it.

[Mike Caldwell]

What about Ike's questions on the snake
and question 4.

Basically is this new system with these issues from the start or has
this system or parts of been in use and working in the past.

[Erik Jerde]

Have you verified continuity on the snake?  Have you verified that the snake is constructed properly?

[John Roberts {JR}]

Yes the Condenser and Dynamic Mics works - The Whirlwind Direct Box works - the Radial and Behringer DIs don't work - and I tried it on multiple sends in different zones -
the XLR was fine as it worked with the Condenser,Dynamic and Whirlwind DI.

I'm scratching my head over this - there seems to be no reason to it.

have you tried a separate known good xlr cable?

The DI boxes all work elsewhere?


JR

[Nathan West]

What about Ike's questions on the snake
and question 4.

Basically is this new system with these issues from the start or has
this system or parts of been in use and working in the past.

The System is 3 years old - I've only been using it since April of last year - I haven't had the opportunity to use
direct boxes on the sends - so I don't know about the viability of the sends.

[Nathan West]

Have you verified continuity on the snake?  Have you verified that the snake is constructed properly?

Yes I have verified the continuity of snake in my troubleshooting - but that wouldn't explain the Whirlwind and Microphones working and
the Radial and Behringer DIs not passing signal - right?

[Nathan West]

have you tried a separate known good xlr cable?

The DI boxes all work elsewhere?

I tried a different XLR - but the current XLR is definitely good - the DI boxes when plugged direct into the mixer
work well -

[Mike Caldwell]

Is the snake a "factory" built snake.
In installations many times the snake is built/terminated on site or at least one
end of it......and I have seen some crap jobs attempting to do that!
How did you test the snake cable channels.

What comes out of the XLR of a passive direct box is not much different than and SM58.

And to double check is this an old fashioned copper snake cable or an Allen Heath remote stage box that goes with your SQ7 mixer?

Post some pictures of the snake, and pictures of some of the solder connections at each end.

As Ike mentioned, there is working and then working correctly. With a mic plugged into the snake and then plugged into the mixer......same input, same settings does it sound the same? 

[John Roberts {JR}]

OK.. If it behaves properly with a separate known good XLR cable, but not with the installed snake, something is wrong with the installed snake.

The next troubleshooting step is to test all the snake channels to see if they all behave the same.

JR   

[Stephen Swaffer]

Just had one of my maintenance tech come in with an "impossible scenario"-happened to be vacuum lines in his case.  Every time (every single time) I have run into an "impossible situation" while troubleshooting I eventually figured out I had assumed something-either on purpose or accidentally as an oversight.

What I would do?  Take paper or spreadsheet and make a matrix with devices on one axis and tests on another and write down what I am testing and results.  You have a lot of iterations going on to see the complete picture in your head.  Just my 2 cents.

[John Roberts {JR}]

Just had one of my maintenance tech come in with an "impossible scenario"-happened to be vacuum lines in his case.  Every time (every single time) I have run into an "impossible situation" while troubleshooting I eventually figured out I had assumed something-either on purpose or accidentally as an oversight.

What I would do?  Take paper or spreadsheet and make a matrix with devices on one axis and tests on another and write down what I am testing and results.  You have a lot of iterations going on to see the complete picture in your head.  Just my 2 cents.

They just need to unplug it and let it reboot. 

JR

[Mike Caldwell]

I get the feeling we will never know what happened with this!!

[Jonathan Johnson]

I get the feeling we will never know what happened with this!!

Maybe he took the advice immediately prior to your post and rebooted the passive DI boxes. 

[ProSoundWeb Community]