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Author Topic: I-Mag suggestions  (Read 1500 times)

Craig Hauber

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I-Mag suggestions
« on: January 12, 2023, 12:12:28 PM »

Looking to eliminate the 1694a coax runs thru the audience areas for I-Mag cams on a tour.
Are any of the network video formats of low enough delay to use for live I-Mag (of a musical show with choreography). I hate shooting active performers when the results appear on screen almost a whole bar behind the live! (and this has been a battle with our current cams/coax/ATEM/projector setup)
And if so, what type of network bandwidth would I need for 3 x 1080 feeds?
I have a 10G fiber link between stage and FOH that my Control, DMX and Dante is barely using.
Because we set up in a hurry daily I would love less lines than the 250' hod of coax we currently figure-8 into a trunk and instead move everything to a lightweight fiber on a spool.

(Just another episode of a sound guy having to solve everyone else's problems.)
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: I-Mag suggestions
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2023, 01:50:45 PM »

There is inherent latency in HDMI.  Different cameras can have from 2-8 frames of lag to the output.  Any converter will add more.
You might look into NDI for vid over ethernet.  I don't know their latency. 
I have some Hollyland Cosmo 600 wireless Tx /Rx that have almost no latency.  Between the BMCP4k and that, I can stream 1080 live handheld music in near real time.  No cables.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 01:53:11 PM by Dave Garoutte »
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Erik Jerde

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Re: I-Mag suggestions
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2023, 02:00:23 PM »

If your goal is just to get to fiber because itís less bulky/easier to work with then use SDI copper to fiber converters and be done.  Iíd stick with SDI.  Thereís a reason why itís been the professional video transport for years.
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Craig Hauber

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Re: I-Mag suggestions
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2023, 05:21:36 PM »

If your goal is just to get to fiber because itís less bulky/easier to work with then use SDI copper to fiber converters and be done.  Iíd stick with SDI.  Thereís a reason why itís been the professional video transport for years.
Yes I have been discovering that in my research.  SDI on coax is still the transport medium that provides the highest bandwidth for the least cost.
Also found that 12-strand SM fiber on a spool is surprisingly affordable. Even considering I may have to carry an identical spare because it is definitely an "all eggs in one basket" type situation.
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Craig Hauber
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Erik Jerde

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Re: I-Mag suggestions
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2023, 09:12:25 AM »

Yes I have been discovering that in my research.  SDI on coax is still the transport medium that provides the highest bandwidth for the least cost.
Also found that 12-strand SM fiber on a spool is surprisingly affordable. Even considering I may have to carry an identical spare because it is definitely an "all eggs in one basket" type situation.

The fiber youíre referring to is probably MPO terminated fiber that you can put breakout whips on.  It can be surprisingly cheap.  I just got 2 30M MPO MM cables for $48 bucks each.  Helluva deal.

Iíd strongly caution you against using fiber intended for data centers though.  Iíd be concerned about durability in a live production environment.  Most video fiber that Iíve worked with is heavier duty tactical type cable terminated with neutrik opticon which is a ruggedized LC fiber connector intended for the type of work and environments we encounter.  Youíre also much more likely to be able to find rentals.
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Craig Hauber

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Re: I-Mag suggestions
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2023, 09:25:04 PM »

The fiber youíre referring to is probably MPO terminated fiber that you can put breakout whips on.  It can be surprisingly cheap.  I just got 2 30M MPO MM cables for $48 bucks each.  Helluva deal.

Iíd strongly caution you against using fiber intended for data centers though.  Iíd be concerned about durability in a live production environment.  Most video fiber that Iíve worked with is heavier duty tactical type cable terminated with neutrik opticon which is a ruggedized LC fiber connector intended for the type of work and environments we encounter.  Youíre also much more likely to be able to find rentals.
I was looking at 500' tactical grade field deployable vehicle drive-over rated 12-strand LC-LC SM.
Technically not "cheap" but still inexpensive compared to the cost of the gear plugged into it!

I'm still finding that just sticking with 1694 coax is still cheaper if not a bit more time consuming and awkward to deploy.

Still searching for low-latency cameras, The PTZ optics cams are way worse than the newer JVC 4k camcorder  -It's actually tolerable. 
But also in design talks with production to revisit the set design.  If we can get it so the I-Mag isn't upstage but off to the sides then people wouldn't be able to see live and on-screen simultaneously (as easily).
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Craig Hauber
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Re: I-Mag suggestions
¬ę Reply #5 on: January 20, 2023, 09:25:04 PM ¬Ľ


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