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Author Topic: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12  (Read 1529 times)

Ionescu Florin Gabriel

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2022, 07:17:02 PM »

It comes down to how much SPL do you really need (continuous/peak etc)

Yes that amp can drive 4 double lab 12" cabinets to a decent level.  Maybe plenty to blow them up, depending on how hard you drive it or maybe not enough if you have wide dynamic range material.

Depending on how compressed the signal is makes a huge difference.


Thank you very much for the answer Mr. Ivan🤗🤗

I WANT TO ACHIEVE A CONTINUOUS SPL OF 135DB OR EVEN 137DB AT 1M DISTANCE ON THE 4 DOUBLE CABINETS FOR OUTDOOR LIVE EVENTS WITH UP TO 300-350 PARTICIPANTS.

As a processor, I wanted to opt for something like this.

https://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/dna-sc48/

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2022, 08:18:56 AM »


Thank you very much for the answer Mr. Ivan🤗🤗

I WANT TO ACHIEVE A CONTINUOUS SPL OF 135DB OR EVEN 137DB AT 1M DISTANCE ON THE 4 DOUBLE CABINETS FOR OUTDOOR LIVE EVENTS WITH UP TO 300-350 PARTICIPANTS.

As a processor, I wanted to opt for something like this.

https://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/dna-sc48/
Here is the quick "simple math" approach to estimating SPL.

Given the sensitivity of 89dB and a power handling of 400 watts continuous.

1 driver =89dB 

1 cabinet= 95dB  (6dB for doubling the cone area/drive level in watts)

2 cabinets=101dB

4 cabinets= 107dB

400 watts power gain=26dB

So 107dB+26dB=133dB.

You are "in the ballpark" of where you would like to be.

There are other factors that could add to and/or subtract from that level.  Therefore "it depends".
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Ionescu Florin Gabriel

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2022, 04:18:49 PM »

Here is the quick "simple math" approach to estimating SPL.

Given the sensitivity of 89dB and a power handling of 400 watts continuous.

1 driver =89dB 

1 cabinet= 95dB  (6dB for doubling the cone area/drive level in watts)

2 cabinets=101dB

4 cabinets= 107dB

400 watts power gain=26dB

So 107dB+26dB=133dB.

You are "in the ballpark" of where you would like to be.

There are other factors that could add to and/or subtract from that level.  Therefore "it depends".


Thank you very much for your answer!🤗


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Ionescu Florin Gabriel

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2023, 08:23:54 AM »

Here is the quick "simple math" approach to estimating SPL.

Given the sensitivity of 89dB and a power handling of 400 watts continuous.

1 driver =89dB 

1 cabinet= 95dB  (6dB for doubling the cone area/drive level in watts)

2 cabinets=101dB

4 cabinets= 107dB

400 watts power gain=26dB

So 107dB+26dB=133dB.

You are "in the ballpark" of where you would like to be.

There are other factors that could add to and/or subtract from that level.  Therefore "it depends".

I greet you all with great respect and wish you a new year with good health, many joys with families and many unique and beautiful audio projects!🤗🎉🎊🔊🔊🔊🔊

 And now my question, do you think I could put 4 of these on top of 4 LAB 12 double basses.
If we were looking at the spl, I would say that they will be ok for the 4 double Labs, but any opinion is welcome?

https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/premium-series/4606/va-8
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2023, 09:42:06 AM »

I greet you all with great respect and wish you a new year with good health, many joys with families and many unique and beautiful audio projects!🤗🎉🎊🔊🔊🔊🔊

 And now my question, do you think I could put 4 of these on top of 4 LAB 12 double basses.
If we were looking at the spl, I would say that they will be ok for the 4 double Labs, but any opinion is welcome?

https://www.ld-systems.com/en/series/premium-series/4606/va-8
Don't worry about the output of the subs and the tops being different.

What you are concerned with is whether either will be loud enough for what you need to do.

It doesn't matter if either the subs or the tops are louder than the other.  You just adjust level as needed, but as long as the "weakest link" is loud enough for the job at hand, you will be fine.

If one outruns the other, then it will simply be cleaner and last longer.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Ionescu Florin Gabriel

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2023, 01:25:40 PM »

Don't worry about the output of the subs and the tops being different.

What you are concerned with is whether either will be loud enough for what you need to do.

It doesn't matter if either the subs or the tops are louder than the other.  You just adjust level as needed, but as long as the "weakest link" is loud enough for the job at hand, you will be fine.

If one outruns the other, then it will simply be cleaner and last longer.

Thank you very much for your answer Mr. Ivan, I agree with you.

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Ionescu Florin Gabriel

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2023, 10:06:59 AM »

Ionescu,

How many people your subs can handle depends on how many are in the area of coverage, and what SPL your target is.

I have used four similar volume and Fb (36Hz tuning) dual Lab 12" subs outdoors with 3000 to 5000 people attending for live and playback events.

Each of the dual LAB 12" cabinets can produce around 125dB SPL, or 128dB peak at one meter within the 400 watt per driver thermal limits and not exceed Xmax, linear displacement limits 30-100Hz.
The cabinets with the additional front resonator would have more upper (60-120Hz) output.
The small voice coils of the LAB 12" are not very good at getting rid of heat, as they heat impedance rises, creating thermal compression as voltage amplifiers deliver less power into higher impedance.

If the dynamic range of your program material is large (>+12dB) there will be little thermal compression, if very low, < 6dB, the voice coil heating could reduce output by -3 dB or more, especially if the bass line is near the 35Hz Fb, where displacement (and cooling) is minimized.
If closely coupled, adding a pair gives +6dB, going to four cabinets, +12dB, for a total of around 140dB peak level at one meter.
Outdoors, each doubling of distance reduces level by 6dB.
140dB at one meter would drop to about 120dB at 10meters, 100dB at 100 meters.
Depending on whether the people are jammed shoulder to shoulder, dancing, or seated on lawn chairs, you could expect a range from 5 per square meter to as little as 0.5 per square meter.

Indoors, room modes and location of the cabinets will create areas with more or less output at different frequencies, but in general the level won't drop as much with distance as outdoors.
 
Nice looking cabinets, but definitely add grill covers unless you enjoy cleaning trash out of the ports and repairing holes in cones and surrounds.
Also, MDF does not hold up well on the road, especially if conditions are wet or humid, and weighs far more than plywood for a given stiffness.

Art
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Mr. Art, you really went with 4 pieces from 3000-5000 people, does 4 double ported pieces really manage to cope with so many people?
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Art Welter

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2023, 04:42:43 PM »

Mr. Art, you really went with 4 pieces from 3000-5000 people, does 4 double ported pieces really manage to cope with so many people?
The subs didn't have to cope with people, they just were required to put out low frequency sound  ;).

On the 2009 gig I was thinking of, the four dual LAB12 bass reflex cabinets used on the secondary stage did manage to put out more SPL at 40 Hz than eight dual 18" Meyers 650P used on the main stage, though the 650P were into heavy protection/limiting, which reduced their output.

Both the LAB12 and the drivers used in the Meyers 650P are rather weak compared to what is available now.

Art

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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2023, 05:47:49 PM »


Both the LAB12 and the drivers used in the Meyers 650P are rather weak compared to what is available now.

Art


I DIYed a 2x18 loaded with 18TLW3000 based on drawings from 18sound.
It generates about the same SPL as a KS28 for a lot less money.
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Ionescu Florin Gabriel

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Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2023, 10:52:58 PM »

The subs didn't have to cope with people, they just were required to put out low frequency sound  ;).

On the 2009 gig I was thinking of, the four dual LAB12 bass reflex cabinets used on the secondary stage did manage to put out more SPL at 40 Hz than eight dual 18" Meyers 650P used on the main stage, though the 650P were into heavy protection/limiting, which reduced their output.

Both the LAB12 and the drivers used in the Meyers 650P are rather weak compared to what is available now.

Art


If it produced more spl at 40hz than 8 dual 18 inch from meyer 650P still we can't really consider them weak, still it's a pretty good performance, at least for me.

With my plan I never got to do a test with any bass on 18 inches single or dual, but soon I will establish this.

I don't want to exceed the current 18-inch duals in the number of 8 pieces, but to be with 4 double labs at least at the response level of 4 single 18-inch ones, even a little bit more on the sub-bass side 30-60 hz, that's my desire , I hope to succeed with my plan as I have quite a lot of output even with lower power.

Sincerely, Ionescu

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: project bass reflex 2x12 with eminence lab 12
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2023, 10:52:58 PM »


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