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[Ivan Beaver]

Regarding "how many people", it varies A LOT depending on how loud you REALISTICALLY expect it to be, at what distance, what weighting and speed is in your SPL requirement.

You then start with the measured sensitivity (and be sure to include the impedance and drive voltage-as it could be one of two impedances) and start calculating from there.

[Ionescu Florin Gabriel]

Ionescu,


If the 2400X can do around 1000 watts into 3 ohms, -10 dB is only 100 watts.
One cabinet can only put out around 115dB at that level, if you're reading much more, your SPL calibration is probably off.

With dynamic music, reaching Xmax on peaks is no problem.
The LAB12 Xmax is 13mm, 26mm peak to peak of linear (clean) travel.
I set the grill cloth just a bit beyond that point on my cabinets, made it easy to see when Xmax was reached.

Xlim/Xmech is 22mm, 44mm peak to peak. At that excursion, the LAB12 suspension is pulled tight, past that may rip.

Using a BW24 30Hz HPF for a 35Hz Fb (excursion minima) would keep excursion roughly equal at 45Hz and 30 Hz. Below 30Hz the port unloads, excursion rises with little output increase- trying to get much output at 27Hz is a waste of power.

Art
[/quot

Thank you very much for the answer Mr. Art!

 Are you saying that if I increase the gain until the Vumeter flashes on the amplifier panel at -10 dB, I only have 100 w on LD SYSTEMS, does this mean that LD SYSTEMS is not enough power for LABs?

 I tell you this because I did outdoor events with the 2 dual LAB amplified crown xls 1502's with only 516w into 3 ohms cranking the gain from the mixer until I went to -20dB on the amp's Vummeters and I can say that the sub bass was quite loud strong and extended up to 100-115 m, that's how far I moved away from the subwoofers, moreover I didn't move away to hear how far the sub-bass propagates, of course it didn't have the spl from 1 m, but even so, I was very AMAZED HOW POWERFUL AND EXTENDED THEY SOUND UP TO THAT DISTANCE, after which I gave the gain from the mixer to blink at -10 dB on the Vumeter and at 25 m from the LABs when entering the frequencies 35- 40 hz vibrated the windows of the neighbors' houses where we did the events.😁😁😁😁🔊🔊🔊🔊

 With LD, I didn't get to do a stress test at the labs because it was bought a short time ago, I hope that this week I can go to a place where I can do a stress test, because at my house no chance, my neighbors i don't love my LABs at all.😁😁😁

 IONESCU.

[Ionescu Florin Gabriel]

Regarding "how many people", it varies A LOT depending on how loud you REALISTICALLY expect it to be, at what distance, what weighting and speed is in your SPL requirement.

You then start with the measured sensitivity (and be sure to include the impedance and drive voltage-as it could be one of two impedances) and start calculating from there.

Mr. Ivan

I want to start with 4 double LAB pieces with a constant SPL at 1m of 135-137 dB on the 4 doubles, if I succeed in this, it means that my intuition will give good results, and I know that I will succeed in this, I trust the plan and in LABs that it will not disappoint me.

With respect, Ionescu.

[Ionescu Florin Gabriel]

Ionescu,

The XLS 1502 is a little light for peak power, but still more than enough to burn the 2.5" LAB12 voice coils if driven with "CONSTANT" signal like a sine wave with only 3dB crest factor. Power handling is not the LAB12 strong point..

A pair of 12" have similar SD to a single 18".
The LAB12 have 13mm excursion, about double that of a budget-price 18", so you can expect as much as 6dB more LF output from a dual LAB12 than a single cheap old 18".
That said, there are relatively low cost 18" available now with displacement similar or even greater to a pair of LAB12 that can also handle far more power, so are capable of more output, especially in the upper sub range where front loaded LAB12 performance is not great.

I don't know what type of systems "all your friends" are used to, but it would be interesting to hear what they think after hearing your system outdoors or at the usual nightclub venues.

Art
[/quote
Thanks for the reply !

I own the Labs since 2016, until this year when I bought LD SYSTEMS I did my work with CROWN XLS 1502, but he did not see a -10dB signal at any event, not even a clip.

 I now attack the subs with an LD SYSTEMS DEEP2 2400X AMPLIFIER POWER:

2X1200 W RMS 2 OHMS
 2X950W RMS 4 OHMS
 2X600 RMS 8 OHMS

DAMPING FACTOR 450 /20-500 HZ 8 OHMS.

In 3 ohms it would be about 2x800 w rms, which would be ideal for LABs I don't want to exceed the power of 800 rms on each subwoofer even if it would carry the speakers, I prefer power equal to that of the speakers with a clean signal from the mixer but also from the amplifier.

The respective LD SYSTEMS has this on the front panel:

 protection
limited
 -5dB
 -10dB
-15dB
SIGNAL

 At a single event, I went with light blinking up to -10dB, and anyway I decided not to exceed the -10dB signal regardless of how big the event is and how many people there are.

For example, if I attack the amplifier with -15 dB (this being the gain from the mixer until around 9:30-10:00) and apply a 27 hz sine I have a travel of almost 10 mm, if I reduce the gain a little the travel decreases about 6-7 mm, HOWEVER, I AM VERY CAREFUL ABOUT THE PARTS I PUT THAT HAVE FREQUENCIES UNDER 30 HZ AND I ADJUST THE GAIN SO THAT I DO NOT EXCEED XMAX AT 27 HZ, AND ANYWAY NOT ON THE PARTS THAT HAVE FREQUENCIES FROM 35 HZ ABOVE I HAVEN'T REACHED XMAX, I'LL PROBABLY HAVE TO GO FROM THE -10dB TO THE -5dB TO REACH OR EXCEED XMAX, HOWEVER I WILL NOT ATTEMPT THAT.

For extra spl, WE ALWAYS MULTIPLY THE SUBWOOFERES, BUT WE DON'T GO WITH THE SIGNAL TO LIMITATION OR PROTECTION, I LIKE TO SEE GREEN ON BOTH THE MIXER AND THE AMPLIFIERS, SO NO ONE WILL SUFFER, NOT THE SPEAKERS, NOT ME.
[/quote




Mr. Art

My friends are used to the Dynacord XA system at weddings, they say that there is nothing better, I mean those who sing live at events, I know artists from here who sold their Dynacord and bought DANLEY SOUND , after which they sold DANLEY and went back to Dynacord again, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE, HOW TO SELL DANLEY and go back to dynacord, which DANLEY SOUND IS ONE OF THE FEARED LEADERS IN THE PRO AUDIO FIELD, PERIOD.

This is what Tor says about them and their ears, otherwise the other friends who don't play LIVE and go as DJs have their FBT HIMAXX60, RCF, ETC, but as a mixer the indispensable dynacord 1003, etc .

And my opinion about Dynacord is that it has nothing to look for in the field of PRO AUDIO, BECAUSE I HEARD AN XA COLUMN AND WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED WITH THE SOUND, AGAIN, IT'S JUST MY OPINION.


On the DJ side where I currently go to parties, my friends on the Facebook groups mostly jumped on my head and told me that what I did as a plan for LABs is rubbish and that the speakers LAB 12 have nothing to look for in the PRO field, especially in a BASS REFLEX plan where I want to use them FOR DJ AND LIVE EVENTS.

MY FRIEND WHO MADE MY PLAN INTERVENTED ON FACEBOOK AND CONTACTED THEM TO EXPLAIN HOW THE PLAN WAS GOING, BUT IN NO WAY, THEY STARTED TO LAUGH AT HIM TOO.

 BEFORE THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PLAN, THEY TOLD ME THAT I DON'T PULL OUT MORE THAN 112 DB AT 35 HZ IF I ATTACK IT WITH 800-1000 RMS, WHEN I SHOWED THEM THE CLIP WITH THE MEASUREMENTS THEY SAID THEY WERE NOT GOOD, THE MICROPHONE WITH WHICH I MEASURED IT'S NOT GOOD, ETC.


OTHERS TOLD ME THAT THE PLAN IS FOOLISHNESS THAT HAS NO CONNECTION WITH PRO DOMAIN, AND THAT IT HAS NO TUNE AT ANY FREQUENCY, AND THAT IT IS A SHAME TO TAKE SUCH SUBWOOFER TO EVENTS BECAUSE THE PRO DOMAIN DOES NOT USE SPEAKERS LIKE THIS LIKE LAB 12, AND THEY DIDN'T REFER TO IT AS 12 INCHES, ABOUT THAT SURROUND.

 THESE ARE MY FRIENDS


WITH RESPECT IONESCU.

[Ionescu Florin Gabriel]

I own four cabs based on Art's design, I've used them in bars with 300ish loud, drunk, dancing attendees for both DJ and live bands and they worked great in that scenario.

Outdoors, I would want a lot more depending on the program material.

MR. ART HAS MADE A SUPER NICE PLAN, I WILL DEFINITELY BUILD IT

[Ionescu Florin Gabriel]

I own four cabs based on Art's design, I've used them in bars with 300ish loud, drunk, dancing attendees for both DJ and live bands and they worked great in that scenario.

Outdoors, I would want a lot more depending on the program material.

Mr. Spenser

Could you please tell me what power you use for the 4 Lab basses?

What satellites have you put or are you still putting on top of them and with what power have you amplified them?

Given that the bass reaches 3200w rms, roughly what power should the satellites be at, so estimate, I KNOW THE SUBS SHOULD ALWAYS BE 3DB ABOVE THE SATELLITES.

 I was thinking about making 2 pieces of 2x10 or maximum 2x12 for my 4, also with EMINENCE speakers, something from kappa pro 12, but an opinion from you is welcome at any time .

Sincerely, Ionescu

[Ivan Beaver]

Mr. Spenser

Could you please tell me what power you use for the 4 Lab basses?

What satellites have you put or are you still putting on top of them and with what power have you amplified them?

Given that the bass reaches 3200w rms, roughly what power should the satellites be at, so estimate, I KNOW THE SUBS SHOULD ALWAYS BE 3DB ABOVE THE SATELLITES.

 I was thinking about making 2 pieces of 2x10 or maximum 2x12 for my 4, also with EMINENCE speakers, something from kappa pro 12, but an opinion from you is welcome at any time .

Sincerely, Ionescu

Don't think in terms of wattage, but rather sensitivity.

There is nothing that says the tops (satellites) should have 3dB greater power.  There are MANY factors that affect this a HUGE amount.

What is the sensitivity of the subs?  What is the sensitivity of the tops?  What is the music style?  How much louder do the subs need to be over tops?

I would argue that for some style of music (mainly Dance and heavy rap/rock) the subs need to be CAPABLE of 20-30dB greater output over the tops.

How much wattage is that?  It depends on the answers to the questions I said above.

It could be  2 or 3 times the wattage of the tops, or it could the 20-30 times the wattage.

There is no way to guess, unless you know some specifics.

[Art Welter]

Are you saying that if I increase the gain until the Vumeter flashes on the amplifier panel at -10 dB, I only have 100 w on LD SYSTEMS, does this mean that LD SYSTEMS is not enough power for LABs?

I'm just saying the difference between 100 watts and 1000 is 10dB. 

If your amp can deliver 1000 watts into 3 ohms, and you are satisfied with 100, you have plenty of power 

Art

[Ionescu Florin Gabriel]

I'm just saying the difference between 100 watts and 1000 is 10dB. 

If your amp can deliver 1000 watts into 3 ohms, and you are satisfied with 100, you have plenty of power 

Art

Mr. Art

Can you tell me if I can amplify 4 ported double lab 12 with this amplifier?

https://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/dna-5k4c/

[Ivan Beaver]

Mr. Art

Can you tell me if I can amplify 4 ported double lab 12 with this amplifier?

https://www.danleysoundlabs.com/products/dna-5k4c/

It comes down to how much SPL do you really need (continuous/peak etc)

Yes that amp can drive 4 double lab 12" cabinets to a decent level.  Maybe plenty to blow them up, depending on how hard you drive it or maybe not enough if you have wide dynamic range material.

Depending on how compressed the signal is makes a huge difference.

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