Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums > Audio Measurement and Testing

To or Not To invest in SMAART.

(1/3) > >>

Matt Vivlamore:
Should I do it or talk me out of it?

After this weekend, seeing the FOH/System tech do his thing with SMAART and time aligned correct the PA (flown d&b) and heard it cleaned up the sound. And we got talking about my system (he’s heard it before) and because I’m mixing brands, we’re thinking that my tops and subs aren’t playing nice with each other and there is a time/phase alignment delay. In a few weeks we’ll be on a gig together and I’ll be supporting the C-Stage with my system and we’re going to check the time alignment.

I am running RCF TTP4A tops and JBL SRX828SP with an SQ5 at the front end. Depending on the situation/room, I either ground stack or I put the TTs on tripods & center cluster the subs. I’m also thinking of investing in the fly hardware to hang the tops off an SL100 or Lifts.

So… would it be worth it to invest in SMAART (will need to buy an RTA Mic and USB interface) and then pick up a decent DSP for delay adjustments.  Or am I over thinking this?

Matthias McCready:

--- Quote from: Matt Vivlamore on December 09, 2022, 10:30:06 PM ---Should I do it or talk me out of it?

After this weekend, seeing the FOH/System tech do his thing with SMAART and time aligned correct the PA (flown d&b) and heard it cleaned up the sound. And we got talking about my system (he’s heard it before) and because I’m mixing brands, we’re thinking that my tops and subs aren’t playing nice with each other and there is a time/phase alignment delay. In a few weeks we’ll be on a gig together and I’ll be supporting the C-Stage with my system and we’re going to check the time alignment.

I am running RCF TTP4A tops and JBL SRX828SP with an SQ5 at the front end. Depending on the situation/room, I either ground stack or I put the TTs on tripods & center cluster the subs. I’m also thinking of investing in the fly hardware to hang the tops off an SL100 or Lifts.

So… would it be worth it to invest in SMAART (will need to buy an RTA Mic and USB interface) and then pick up a decent DSP for delay adjustments.  Or am I over thinking this?

--- End quote ---

I would go for it.

It has been a great investment for me. It is a tool that can help to answer many types of questions' although to get the most out of it, as the operator you did need to know what questions you are wanting to ask.

For an interface, literally about any interface will do. Get the I/O that will be useful for you. I was lazy and got the same interface Jamie had at the Smaart class (a Roland Octacapture), but I have been happy with the purchase, it has saved my butt on a gig or two (it can work as a small/basic mixer independent of a computer with input comps and HPF's).

For mics Rational Acoustics sells some cheap measurement mics with calibration files for about $150 each. I just went for those. If something terrible happens (they get run over by a rogue lift or something) I would have very few tears. You can always get nicer measurement mics down the road, but these do the job, and will get you measuring.

The manual is super good and informative (honestly a good general audio read), but their classes are also quite good; so if you have the opportunity attending one of those is worth it, it can also get you a decent discount on the software as well.

Michael Lawrence:
You don't even need to pay extra for the correction files. We sell them because people want them but they don't make any practical difference in this type of work. The seat to seat variations in the space will swamp the corrections made by the file. See page 8. https://downloads.rationalacoustics.com/documentation/Smaart-Gear-Choices.pdf

If the investment is a challenge, we introduced an annual subscription option for v9 that you may find appealing. A year of Smaart LE is something like $159 and gives you everything you need for system alignment work.

That being said - if a PA system is not sounding right, the issue is almost never the main-sub alignment. In a typical small-medium system situation it just doesn't have a big enough effect on the outcome. I devoted a chapter to it in my book but there's also this PSW article from a few years ago. https://www.prosoundweb.com/dont-fear-the-phase-gremlins-looking-further-into-alignment-between-mains-and-subs/

Having the tools to give yourself more information - whether that's Smaart or another platform - is never a bad thing, the more information you bring to the table the more informed your decisions will be. (And it's about your decisions... Smaart is just a tool.. you must decide what to do as a result of the data you gather).

If you're considering a measurement rig and are looking for some guidance on what to get, feel free to give the office a call, my extension is x107. On weekends it'll ring through to my cell so call any time.

Helge A Bentsen:

--- Quote from: Michael Lawrence on December 09, 2022, 11:58:52 PM ---You don't even need to pay extra for the correction files. We sell them because people want them but they don't make any practical difference in this type of work. The seat to seat variations in the space will swamp the corrections made by the file. See page 8. https://downloads.rationalacoustics.com/documentation/Smaart-Gear-Choices.pdf

If the investment is a challenge, we introduced an annual subscription option for v9 that you may find appealing. A year of Smaart LE is something like $159 and gives you everything you need for system alignment work.

That being said - if a PA system is not sounding right, the issue is almost never the main-sub alignment. In a typical small-medium system situation it just doesn't have a big enough effect on the outcome. I devoted a chapter to it in my book but there's also this PSW article from a few years ago. https://www.prosoundweb.com/dont-fear-the-phase-gremlins-looking-further-into-alignment-between-mains-and-subs/

Having the tools to give yourself more information - whether that's Smaart or another platform - is never a bad thing, the more information you bring to the table the more informed your decisions will be. (And it's about your decisions... Smaart is just a tool.. you must decide what to do as a result of the data you gather).

If you're considering a measurement rig and are looking for some guidance on what to get, feel free to give the office a call, my extension is x107. On weekends it'll ring through to my cell so call any time.

--- End quote ---

Mhm. Local variations will often play havoc on your "perfect alignment".
Here's a screen grab from last night at FOH, pretty nasty back wall reflections.
Sounded ok back there, but moving forwards into the audience changed things.

John Schalk:

--- Quote from: Matt Vivlamore on December 09, 2022, 10:30:06 PM ---So… would it be worth it to invest in SMAART (will need to buy an RTA Mic and USB interface) and then pick up a decent DSP for delay adjustments.  Or am I over thinking this?

--- End quote ---
I am going through this decision process right now and I think I'm going to treat myself to a perpetual license of Smaart LE ($449 until 12/31) for Xmas.  I already own an audio measurement rig using a MacBook Pro, although I'm also thinking of re-platforming to a PC running Win10 because of the number of software packages that I need to run that are PC only (Armonia, Ease Focus, Harmon System Architect, etc).  I have a simple two channel USB pre and I've recently setup my X32 Rack to act as my USB Pre for multiple microphone measurement setups.  I use the Behringer ECM8000 ($30).

I've been using Room Eq Wizard, and lately Open Sound Meter, on my MacBook to measure my speakers and to verify system phase alignment for about two years.  If that is all you are interested in doing, then I suggest that you start with one of these free applications.  The value with Smaart, and the reason that I am contemplating making a purchase, is the training and support that are available with Smaart that is specific to our industry.  There are a ton of YouTube videos for REW, but 90+% of them target the home theater audience.  Open Sound Meter has a FB page and that's about it so, when I get a wonky phase trace that doesn't look anything like the example in the step by step process that I'm trying to follow, I'm stuck trying to figure things out on my own now.  If I buy Smaart, then Michael has to take my calls :) 

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page