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[Stephen Swaffer]

Personally, if I am bringing my own equipment, I try to never use house outlets.  My work box has a collection of breakers that will fit almost any panel.  I plug the breaker onto the venue's main panel and run my AC distro from it.  Not only does this ensure that I always have plenty of power for the gear I brought, but also saves me from the headaches that arise from poor house wiring.

I trust you don't leave the panel covers off when you do this and that you install breaker blanks after you remove yours-also you use proper arc flash PPE and follow energized work procedures?  I know we've all done it-but plugging breakers into a live panel has it's own hazards.  An outsider (unless they are a licensed electrical contractor)  is not doing it if I am running the venue.

[Steve-White]

I trust you don't leave the panel covers off when you do this and that you install breaker blanks after you remove yours-also you use proper arc flash PPE and follow energized work procedures?  I know we've all done it-but plugging breakers into a live panel has it's own hazards.  An outsider (unless they are a licensed electrical contractor)  is not doing it if I am running the venue.

Exactly what I was thinking.  Panels with dead front removed and wires dangling from breakers and bus bars without strain relief is what comes to mind.  Let alone the accident investigation of something went wrong and trying to explain it to my insurance underwriter investigator.

Most of us have done that, I know I have but it was in a club restaurant kitchen that my buddy owned so it was more of a controlled environment.  What i did yesteryear, I wouldn't it today.

If a venue isn't equipped to safely support the necessary energy to needs of my gear, then if's time for generators or just don't do the job.  Even for DJ shows, a site survey is paramount prior to inking final contract - every time.

And no, that wasn't how I operated yesteryear.  Everything was done "on the fly" - road warrior fashion - ego thought it was cool - we could handle anything - thinking back it's scary the crap we got away with.  The big difference is that today I have put it all on the line and have too great an investment in gear to risk losing it all in a courtroom.

Wires hanging out the front of an electrical panel with the dead front removed - been there done that.  In the club kitchen I referenced, I had installed a set of lugs right onto the bus bars.  So, come in and shut power down with lockout on the feeder.  Allen wrench my distro feeder into the lugs, power it up check things out and do the show.

Not any more.

[Tim McCulloch]

Exactly what I was thinking.  Panels with dead front removed and wires dangling from breakers and bus bars without strain relief is what comes to mind.  Let alone the accident investigation of something went wrong and trying to explain it to my insurance underwriter investigator.

Most of us have done that, I know I have but it was in a club restaurant kitchen that my buddy owned so it was more of a controlled environment.  What i did yesteryear, I wouldn't it today.

If a venue isn't equipped to safely support the necessary energy to needs of my gear, then if's time for generators or just don't do the job.  Even for DJ shows, a site survey is paramount prior to inking final contract - every time.

And no, that wasn't how I operated yesteryear.  Everything was done "on the fly" - road warrior fashion - ego thought it was cool - we could handle anything - thinking back it's scary the crap we got away with.  The big difference is that today I have put it all on the line and have too great an investment in gear to risk losing it all in a courtroom.

Wires hanging out the front of an electrical panel with the dead front removed - been there done that.  In the club kitchen I referenced, I had installed a set of lugs right onto the bus bars.  So, come in and shut power down with lockout on the feeder.  Allen wrench my distro feeder into the lugs, power it up check things out and do the show.

Not any more.

^^^ THIS.  All of it, every last word.

"The things I used to, I don't do  no more" - "Hard Cider" by John McCutcheon & Tom Chapin

[Helge A Bentsen]

So, you're telling me that this cable found the other day in a church is not legal?

(For reference, it's a 230V/63A 3-phase CEE connector wired to three 16A connectors....)

[Steve-White]

So, you're telling me that this cable found the other day in a church is not legal?

(For reference, it's a 230V/63A 3-phase CEE connector wired to three 16A connectors....)

Nah, that looks just fine.  3 x 16A = 48A and since it's 3-phase ya add one extra 16A for headroom, which nets out 64A which is obviously close enough.

[Brian Jojade]

Personally, if I am bringing my own equipment, I try to never use house outlets.  My work box has a collection of breakers that will fit almost any panel.  I plug the breaker onto the venue's main panel and run my AC distro from it.  Not only does this ensure that I always have plenty of power for the gear I brought, but also saves me from the headaches that arise from poor house wiring.

Problem is if you're not a licensed electrician, opening up a house panel is technically not allowed.  Additionally, temporary rigs like that open you up to a whole different level of liability when something invariably goes wrong.  Typical breaker panels are not designed for repeated connects and disconnects so doing so will eventually cause premature wear and create fire risk.

Back in the 90's it wasn't uncommon to see this, and people were even using jumper cable clamps to clamp onto the mains.  Scary crap to say the least.  Doesn't mean you should still do this!

In any case, venues shouldn't be allowing you to open their panels, and you most certainly shouldn't be doing it without their permission!!

I have worked with several venues and in many cases paid to have a 50 amp plug installed right next to the breaker panel.  It typically costs less to have a 50 amp plug installed than it does to hire an electrician to do a tie in at off hours and then a disconnect at the end of the show.  And then if you come back again, that plug is now there for you to use in the future.

[dave briar]

I have worked with several venues and in many cases paid to have a 50 amp plug installed right next to the breaker panel.

Based on advice garnered here that is precisely what we did during our remodel last year. Haven’t had need for it yet given the abundant power we built into the stage but it is available if a touring band wants to use their own distro.

[Helge A Bentsen]

Based on advice garnered here that is precisely what we did during our remodel last year. Haven’t had need for it yet given the abundant power we built into the stage but it is available if a touring band wants to use their own distro.

It's the best and cheapest upgrade you can do in most cases.
I always advise venues to build extra 32A/63A CEE 3-phase outlet(s) for touring productions. Often it's cheaper than adding a couple of extra single-phase outlets for small venues, bigger venues need 3-phase anyway. The cheapest legal 32A 3-phase distro costs roughly $100 new and it's available everywhere if the venue wish to tap into these outlets themselves.

[Tommy Nikiforov]

Nah, that looks just fine.  3 x 16A = 48A and since it's 3-phase ya add one extra 16A for headroom, which nets out 64A which is obviously close enough.

A blue CEE connector = single phase , red = three phase , yellow is 110V etc , you likely know that but i thought id clarify for anyone who might not know.

[Helge A Bentsen]

A blue CEE connector = single phase , red = three phase , yellow is 110V etc , you likely know that but i thought id clarify for anyone who might not know.

Not in EU land.
Blue can be both single phase and three phase without neutral.
Red is three phase with neutral.

[ProSoundWeb Community]