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[Karel Will]

Hi,

I'm wondering what setups the big guys use to be able to stroll around let's say a stadium or festival site with their tablet and (a) wireless measurement microphone(s).
Mainly looking to build myself a rock solid setup. I need a new AP anyway, so I might as well make it a scalable one.
My guess would be a bunch of APs all over the place on a dedicated ethernet network, but I'm looking for tips and tricks, general advice and caveats...

If someone happens to pass through Belgium (or somewhere close) and would be willing to show me around, that would be heaven. :-)

Thanks a lot!

Karel.

[Scott Helmke]

We usually use an Ubiquiti Bullet with an external antenna.

[Riley Casey]

This has worked extremely well for us but the website says it's "sold out".
https://store.ui.com/products/unifi-ac-mesh-ap

[Steve Eudaly]

This has worked extremely well for us but the website says it's "sold out".
https://store.ui.com/products/unifi-ac-mesh-ap

TP-Link makes a very similar product (EAW225-AC1200) that's a bit cheaper, in stock, and in my experience, much easier to configure. Only recently started using it so time will tell how it holds up.

[Scott Carneval]

Hi,

I'm wondering what setups the big guys use to be able to stroll around let's say a stadium or festival site with their tablet and (a) wireless measurement microphone(s).
Mainly looking to build myself a rock solid setup. I need a new AP anyway, so I might as well make it a scalable one.
My guess would be a bunch of APs all over the place on a dedicated ethernet network, but I'm looking for tips and tricks, general advice and caveats...

If someone happens to pass through Belgium (or somewhere close) and would be willing to show me around, that would be heaven. :-)

Thanks a lot!

Karel.

I think you've presented two different questions. One question is best practices for a stadium alignment, the other is how to distribute temporary wifi throughout a large space.

As for the stadium alignment, your best bet is to distribute microphones (preferably wireless) throughout the listening area, and control/tune the system from a fixed position. Of course you'll want to walk the space to verify and fine tune by ear, but dragging a SMAART rig throughout a stadium would not be ideal. If it's really hot or cold out, you probably want to set your SMAART rig in the press box, but if it's a nice day you might want to set up down on the field. Do your baseline EQ, level, and crossover adjustments from the fixed position, and then walk the stadium with a handheld SPL meter to verify and potentially make some fine-tune adjustments. I've found that using a remote desktop software (I use Anydesk, but any of them will work) will allow me to remote into my laptop via an iPad and walk anywhere I want without worrying about WiFi. But for this to work you will need cellular service on the iPad or hotspot it to your phone or something.

As for deploying WiFi throughout the venue, there are some long range access points available but I've yet to find any that work reliably beyond about 200-300'. I've had more success deploying multiple wireless access points hardwired back to a switch or router. But if you use the method outlined above you really don't need to mess with WiFi.

[Michael Lawrence]

My standard arena-tuning kit is 4 channels of Lectrosonics TM400 wireless (or a Venue combined Tx) and a pair of paddles into a distributor. If your freqs are coordinated correctly and you get the paddles up above head height I have no issue getting solid data from any seat in the room. All the major production houses in the US that I've worked with can provide this stuff and it's more or less a standard config in their drive racks, so it's not a big "ask".

If we are hitting the festival as part of the tour, I will simply bring the drive rack to FOH with us and use the same kit - I always carry a GALAXY in my drive rack so I can do as much of the work as possible while the signals are still in my custody, before we hand them over to the festival's SE. That being said most of the festival work I have done recently was with my artist in a headline slot, in which case we are afforded a much higher level of control over the PA deployment and tuning than I would otherwise enjoy, so we're walking into something that was the way we requested it and doesn't need much done to it.

If it's a non-headline slot, or a fly date, etc, I travel with a single channel of TM400, a small interface, a computer and a GALAXY 408 (if the vendor hasn't been able to provide the GALAXY as part of the control package). That way I'm completely self sufficient and the only thing I'm typically reliant upon the vendor's SE for at that point is shading within arrays, as I can do everything else in the GALAXY before I hand them the signals.

Stadiums in particular, I am in them less often than arenas but when I am, the gear is pretty much the same. If you want to distribute WiFi control to every seat that becomes costly very quickly. The acts I know that do it run hardline internet as part of their fiber ring that connects all the PA towers, and put access points on each.

Sort of an unpopular opinion but I don't bother much with WiFi control. During the tuning process, I walk my mics out, go back to FOH, take my measurements, go move the mics, etc. I can align an arena system this way in 15 - 20 minutes so being able to have WiFi control wouldn't make the process that much faster for me. In a stadium you have mic runners, and radios, and that's more effective than trying to get reliable control connections 300 feet from FOH with enough bandwidth to actually do anything productive. At the end of the day there is no substitute for walking and listening, and I do a lot of walking and listening in a large venue. (Typically I clock about 30k steps a day for a medium sized arena show.)  I don't use any "auto climate" processes from any manufacturer. Sensors at FOH don't know what's happening in the last row of the 300 level, and I don't want any automated tools making changes to the system's response once the show has started and my FOH is listening to it and reacting to it. If they ask me for a change, I will make it, otherwise my job is to walk the "edges" of the system (the front fills, back rows, the parts FOH can't hear) and make small adjustments as needed to keep them matching what is happening at FOH.

I do spec an AP and carry one as part of the tour's package but I often don't use it. When I might use it is during my first "walk" after alignment is done, but the changes I made at that point are typically on the order of 1 dB / 1 ms either way so I typically just make a mental note, and make the adjustments when I get back to FOH. Not everyone is comfortable working that way, but it works for me. Of course once the show starts and the room fills with thousands of humans with cell phones, I pretty much abandon all hope for trying to get reliable WiFi control. Another oft-overlooked fact is that it is very easy to trip and fall when walking through arena / stadium seating sections / stairs in the dark during a show, and I'd much rather not be carrying a laptop or tablet when I do fall, especially because I'm already carrying a flashlight. One of the things I'm doing during my first walk with the lights on is familiarizing myself with the access, paths, and vom layout so I can more safely navigate those areas once it's dark.

A handheld SPL meter cannot give me the information I need to make informed alignment decisions (magnitude response, phase response, Impulse Response and coherence). When you are in spaces that large, timing offsets and air absorption become major contributors that can't be ignored the way they can in smaller scale situations, and a broadband level measurement can't give me the answers I need to address those things. I also need to have hard data to show my FOH engineer and discuss with them. Ultimately they are responsible for the sound of the show, and being able to look at the system coverage measurement data is an important part of that conversation.

I work with one FOH in particular who is totally content to leave me to my own devices and focus on his mix, but that is atypical for FOH engineers working on that scale. They are the ones with management looking over them, and they answer directly to the artist, so in my experience they want to be up to speed on what's going on in the space. Again every situation is different, this is just how I approach it and it's worked out so far. If my process interests you at all, I recently released a book discussing it.

[Thomas Le]

TP-Link makes a very similar product (EAW225-AC1200) that's a bit cheaper, in stock, and in my experience, much easier to configure. Only recently started using it so time will tell how it holds up.

Actually the Unifi AP setup is very straightforward, you just have to have the Unifi network app and scan the QR code on the back of the AP for it to connect and then you're up and running. The configuration is very barebones though in standalone mode, only lets you rename the SSID and password. If you have multiple Unifi AP's and want to to the roaming/handoff thing, AFAIK you have to have either a USG/cloudkey combo or a dream machine pro and it has to see internet for initial setup and afterwards it "should" work without internet.

Personally I have an all UI setup that consists of a Edgerouter X SFP that is passive PoE powering a UAP AC M (that Riley posted) mounted up high on a mic stand. I used that setup in a large outdoor pavilion and for my use it worked great. Since I only use one AP, it was in standalone mode and it auto connects to either 2.4 or 5 since I have it setup that the SSID is the same for both bands and the iPad and Laptop go to either band (but I set preference to 5gHz).

[Steve Eudaly]

Actually the Unifi AP setup is very straightforward, you just have to have the Unifi network app and scan the QR code on the back of the AP for it to connect and then you're up and running.

Good to know. Your scenario is very similar to mine. I should mention my experience setting up the Ubiquiti products is pretty dated at this point and I've not personally worked with anything released within the last several years. A coworker recently had a hell of a time getting a newer U product to do what they needed in a similar simple setup, but I think they may have been trying to use "the old method" without RTFM on the newer unit. Not fair for me to paint with such a broad brush. That being said, I did have a good experience with the TP Link product which had a process similar to what you describe. The product was also in stock, quickly deliverable and cheaper than the U version.

Michael: Thank you for such a thorough review addressing both facets of the OP's questions; tuning and control. I hope to someday be working at such scale and it's nice to hear such a well worded, concise response describing your workflow to realistically achieve the results you need at that level.

Scott: I also appreciate your experience and response. I do agree with Michael in that a handheld SPL meter only goes so far, but understand in some ways gets you closer to a desired result.

Of course at this size of gig it's worth mentioning the amount of work in pre-production using accurate models to properly spec and deploy a system that is up for the task. Even on my peanuts level, knowing how to do this part well will make life in the field exponentially easier. You can't tune physical limitations out of a rig, you can only minimize the apparentness. 

[Michael Lawrence]

Of course at this size of gig it's worth mentioning the amount of work in pre-production using accurate models to properly spec and deploy a system that is up for the task. Even on my peanuts level, knowing how to do this part well will make life in the field exponentially easier. You can't tune physical limitations out of a rig, you can only minimize the apparentness.

100%. Bigger systems / longer throws put design decisions under a microscope. In a small theatre, a 1 degree error in array site angle might be an inconvenience, or go unnoticed. At 100 meters, it can translate to 50 feet of coverage and you can end up missing an entire seating section. If you overlooked something mechanical in the design process, you will definitely be made aware of it once you turn the system on.

[Jelmer de Jong]

We usually use an Ubiquiti Bullet with an external antenna.

This thing gets the job done for about 300 feet of coverage, more than enough in arena's where the FOH is somewhat in the middle. For flat surfaces like festivals I sometimes en up with a bullet in a randem lighting truss on stage (let them supply the cabling  ) and one in a delay tower. FOH is then in the middle of two antenna's.
Things to make sure is that you match the AP/antenna setup with your wireless device. No point in a 500million watt AP that has a 60dB antenna gain when your tablet is on energy saving mode. Sometimes multiple AP turned down in transmit power are better than a single one on full blast.

[ProSoundWeb Community]