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Author Topic: Why S6L?  (Read 12036 times)

Brad Harris

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #90 on: November 19, 2022, 11:18:01 AM »

Why Yamaha Andy? 🤣



A few simple reasons...

flexibility...
192 input channels, 96 output channels... hard to max that out in any configuration (on a 192 engine...)

The fact that I can take just 1 side of an output channel and not have it automatically route the other side (say adding in a mono wedge mix on a stereo mix), same with inputs... don't have to rely on the patch person to put a stereo source right next to itself

Actual independent matrix section

Don't have to pay to "unlock" the console (updates are a different matter all together)

Same modular control surface between all the series!!!!!

My old v3 files load up with no issues (yes there are warnings on load up, but there never are any issues)
My old v3 presets come across as well (and v5-7 load on v3 no problem - within the architecture limitations of the desk)

DRAG AND DROP .

Actual custom layers (yes, Digico does this, Yamaha kinda does this)



As I've stated before, no one makes a monitor console anymore :(


BRad




To add: AVID picks up the phone and listens and implements changes


AVID ships parts out next day after ham handed non avid guest engineers break the dumb buttons.... yes they're dumbly designed, and you have to replace the whole module rather than the button.




Those of you that prefer the S6L, may I ask why? I'm genuinely curious. Particularly if there's someone that prefers the S6L as a monitor console.
It's limitations seem to make it a more difficult console to use than others, especially for monitors, so I'm trying to figure out why it's so popular and requested so often.
Perhaps those that prefer it over Digico, Yamaha or Midas can fill me in on what it has going for it.


Don't really want this thread to turn into a rant about what people hate about the S6L, I'm more interested to know why people love it. Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 19, 2022, 11:21:35 AM by Brad Harris »
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2022, 01:19:28 PM »

Thanks, Brad!

(Brad's a master on the S6L and sadly for him, (the fool) he gave me his cell# and became my go-to for all questions S6L that I come up with in the middle of shows. His overflowing iMessage screen will attest to how many stupid questions I can ask)


We are in agreement on one thing for sure - Nobody makes a MONITOR console anymore!

Q's about your well-thought-out post to follow once I get past my backlog. :-)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 01:22:04 PM by Andrew Broughton »
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #92 on: November 20, 2022, 03:43:42 PM »

Whilst the thread is very interesting I’m finding that consoles are really going down a rabbit hole at the moment.  The S6L is possibly the most advanced console available today alongside the Yamaha Rivage series and arguably the Digico.  Along with functionality comes complexity, and the S6L and Digico prove this, as Mac says, being expert in any of these consoles takes time and a lot of effort.   I would argue hast even the most complex of consoles can be configured to be relatively simple in operation given enough knowledge of what facilities need to be provided.  I would also make the point that I’ve seen almost every make being used and the results being somewhat average, so the console isn’t necessarily helping everyone.  I’m also of the opinion that even with the power on offer, people are all to quick to use it without thinking of the consequences.  In live sound, there are all sorts of reasons why there are variables, musicians are the biggest ones, followed by venues and systems.  The level of workload on many live shows has increased and perhaps some engineers are becoming system operators rather than mixers.  The gear is so good now we have endless possibilities.  I for one, don’t like the idea of being too preoccupied with system management, that I’m not helping the band to get their artist idea across.  I still get too many of my artist friends telling me about shows they are on where monitors aren’t decent and that’s touring with good acts.  With a major tour and fully rehearsed show more of this is possible and expected. 

I’m expecting some major changes in shows, certainly on the desk side.  With some major acts and mix engineers using left field choices.  Plenty of things like LV1’s, not my choice, but a viable solution for some.  Even named shows being mixed on Midas M32’s, of course no good if you require loads of inputs and outputs.  I’ve been mixing shows recently with a Behringer Wing, and whilst that also has limitations, but it has FX better than you get with Digico, unless you are using a Waves server, which as someone else pointed out in this thread is really a “clunky” solution.  With artists, increasingly looking to make money on their tours, outside of really large concerts, small, light and powerful enough, may become far more the future.
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brian maddox

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #93 on: November 20, 2022, 03:57:18 PM »

... With artists, increasingly looking to make money on their tours, outside of really large concerts, small, light and powerful enough, may become far more the future.

This is it's own topic so I won't go too far into it. But I was just talking with a friend a couple of days ago about seeing a significant increase in small format desks on Mid to Large sized tours. The A&H CTi1500 with the dLive engine in particular is becoming much more common. And in nearly all cases it's the Young and Very Sharp engineers that are doing it.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #94 on: November 20, 2022, 04:30:49 PM »

{...} The level of workload on many live shows has increased and perhaps some engineers are becoming system operators rather than mixers. {...}

To me, one of the more important (but less-discussed) skills when operating these complex consoles is knowing how to configure the interface for maximum usability. If I'm sitting behind e.g. a DiGiCo, a not-insignificant part of my setup time will be spent figuring out what controls will be most important during the show and then spent figuring out how to make those controls as easily-accessible as possible. Sometimes it's something as simple as assigning a Group to a fader on the same bank as the Inputs assigned to it, or creating a "save file" macro; sometimes it requires configuring Control Groups (with or without spill), or even snapshots (although I try hard to avoid those for one-offs). In my mind, if I'm spending the entire show flipping banks back-and-forth it means I've probably done some wrong (particularly if I'm just mixing FOH).

TL;DR: I feel like "system operator" isn't a bad description of what I'm doing during console setup (and sometimes even sound check), but I still need to be a "mixer" during the show.

-Russ
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #95 on: November 20, 2022, 04:51:22 PM »

I think I largely agree with you, but it’s also an issue that often you don’t know really what you need access too until you’ve played with the show a while. 

As I alluded to in my post, I’ve been playing with a Wing of late, often I find it’s fx and levels I need most.  I’ll tweak eq and compression a little as often things change with the introduction of water bags and how players respond on the night. 

My pet peeve is with consoles that cost the price of a super car, yet have fx that I wouldn’t have been impressed with 30 years ago.  Just one example why things like the Wing are forward thinking, it offers complete time alignment from channel to output, with the exception or using channel/bus inserts.  Latency using a stage box of about 1.2ms in to out.  Being that the “plug-ins” are native to every channel, there is no additional latency using a “Neve”, “SSL”, “Urei”, “Pultec”, “DBX”, “Summit”, style eq/compressor.  With Roland, Yamaha, Lexicon, TC VS3, EMT, style FX, there is little likelihood you will want for much in processing and there are more updates to come.
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Jim McKeveny

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #96 on: November 20, 2022, 06:10:46 PM »

Young and Very Sharp engineers that are doing it.

As it ever was..
« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 06:13:21 PM by Jim McKeveny »
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Russell Ault

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #97 on: November 20, 2022, 09:52:59 PM »

I think I largely agree with you, but it’s also an issue that often you don’t know really what you need access too until you’ve played with the show a while.  {...}

This is true (at least to an extent), but I feel like part of this skill set is (a) being able to predict what controls will be important and (b) being able to quickly adjust the UI configuration when you inevitably guess wrong (e.g. one of the things I really appreciate about the SD-series is how easy it is to reassign faders).

{...} My pet peeve is with consoles that cost the price of a super car, yet have fx that I wouldn’t have been impressed with 30 years ago.  Just one example why things like the Wing are forward thinking, it offers complete time alignment from channel to output, with the exception or using channel/bus inserts.  Latency using a stage box of about 1.2ms in to out.  Being that the “plug-ins” are native to every channel, there is no additional latency using a “Neve”, “SSL”, “Urei”, “Pultec”, “DBX”, “Summit”, style eq/compressor.  With Roland, Yamaha, Lexicon, TC VS3, EMT, style FX, there is little likelihood you will want for much in processing and there are more updates to come.

This is almost certainly where things are heading; even DiGiCo now has their "Mustard" processing on their Quantum-series consoles. Of course, with apologies to Andy, that level of flexibility and power will only make doing one-offs and festivals even more complicated...

-Russ
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Erik Jerde

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #98 on: November 20, 2022, 10:45:03 PM »

I would argue hast even the most complex of consoles can be configured to be relatively simple in operation given enough knowledge of what facilities need to be provided.

This is 100% true.  I remember setting up a show file for a SD8 so that an outside group of completely non-technical people could run the system without having to hire on an engineer.  With the DiGiCo I could setup a single bank of faders with playback and a few RF mics on it and hide everything else.  Yes, if they poked around at too much stuff they could eventually get at everything and screw something up.  Realistically though it setup a big complicated desk in a way that a complete newbie could operate it and not be scared.
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #99 on: November 22, 2022, 01:27:46 PM »

Why Yamaha Andy? 🤣
I know you're just giving it back to me, but really, because it's just a faster system.
I think a really interesting video would be one where 2 or more experts are in a room (or online together) and given their console of choice, zeroed, and then given random configuration changes that they each need to do and see who can do it the quickest. Just for fun.



Quote
A few simple reasons...

flexibility...
192 input channels, 96 output channels... hard to max that out in any configuration (on a 192 engine...)
Hard to max out any console that's at this level, but I understand if you were going to buy a console that can do "everything", you'd take into account it's max input/output capacity. Usually, though, I see the S6L with the 112 engine and the smaller surface.

Quote
The fact that I can take just 1 side of an output channel and not have it automatically route the other side (say adding in a mono wedge mix on a stereo mix), same with inputs... don't have to rely on the patch person to put a stereo source right next to itself
Which console does that? Not Yamaha. I agree, that's pretty stupid.

Quote
Actual independent matrix section
Go on... Not sure what you mean there.

Quote
Don't have to pay to "unlock" the console (updates are a different matter all together)
I suppose you're speaking of DiGiCo here? What about having to pay for plugins on the Avid?

Quote
Same modular control surface between all the series!!!!!
Huh? I suppose the S6L, but what about the S3? Rivage is like that, but A&H actually does that better than anyone...

Quote
My old v3 files load up with no issues (yes there are warnings on load up, but there never are any issues)
My old v3 presets come across as well (and v5-7 load on v3 no problem - within the architecture limitations of the desk)
Sounds again like a DiGiCo issue. Yamaha, A&H handle this better than anyone.

Quote
DRAG AND DROP .
Not a fan. Too easy to make a mistake IMHO, but I do understand that this is a personal preference.

Quote
Actual custom layers (yes, Digico does this, Yamaha kinda does this)
Not sure what you mean here. Can you change the customer layers layout on snapshot recall on the S6L? Yamaha can.



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As I've stated before, no one makes a monitor console anymore :(
Church.


Quote
To add: AVID picks up the phone and listens and implements changes
Except that they can't implement the really important changes due the way the product is designed.


Quote
AVID ships parts out next day after ham handed non avid guest engineers break the dumb buttons.... yes they're dumbly designed, and you have to replace the whole module rather than the button.
Service is critical. I had a PM5D go down on a show a bunch of years back. Called Yamaha, they aired me the part, step-by-step pictures of how to disassemble and replace the part, and even the TOOL
s needed to get the console apart and some spare screws. Never seen service like that from anyone and I've never forgotten.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 05:44:32 PM by Andrew Broughton »
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-Andy

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http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com
Saving lives through Digital Audio, Programming and Electronics.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #99 on: November 22, 2022, 01:27:46 PM »


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