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[Justice C. Bigler]

Doesn't seem like an iPad app fpr the S6L should be that hard to put together since they already have a very good iPad app for Protools which also integrates with their S1,3,4,6 control surfaces very well; and the S6L is just a modified Protools system.

I mean, except for the fact that Avid has laid off all their in-house programmers and now just outsources their coding to the Ukraine and Czech Republic or wherever.

[Andrew Broughton]

Here's some things that I've found make it difficult to use the console on a throw-and-go with a bunch of bands...

- A person can't run the console and another person run the Editor at the same time.
- No iPad app for dialling in monitors, checking delays or for another person to help with setup
- I've been told that doing things in Config mode may mute audio, meaning you can't really do some things on the fly; correct me if I'm wrong?
- Add a reverb: Config Mode
- Pair/Unpair channels: Config Mode
- Some things can't be stored in scenes: Pair/Unpair for starters, maybe other things as well like console layouts too?
- Can't link output eq's.
- When doing monitors on the smaller S6L with the single screen, you use up that screen leaving it in the mode where you can select mixes for SOF and Cueing (I was told this is the easiest way). Maybe there's a way to have Mix selection and Cueing on user-define keys so you don't waste channel strips or the screen space?

I've also heard that if you have a show file that's made for a configuration with more channels or outputs than the console you're using, it will load, but when saving, you lose the additional channel settings.

I understand that for many, these are not issues because you have a different workflow. All depends on where you started and what you're used to. But, I would like to know if other people have run into these issues and perhaps with some additional understanding, there might be a "better way" when working with this console.

[Russell Ault]

Here's some things that I've found make it difficult to use the console on a throw-and-go with a bunch of bands... {...} But, I would like to know if other people have run into these issues and perhaps with some additional understanding, there might be a "better way" when working with this console.

I think perhaps the "better way" would to use a more suitable tool for the job? For that application it honestly sounds like an X32 would serve you better...

My strong impression (which nothing in this thread has dissuaded me from) is that the S6L, like the SD/Quantum series, is a console that's designed to be programmed before it can be operated. This paradigm comes with it the underlying assumption that someone(s) will spend a day (or a week, or a month) setting up the show file for a particular application, and then that show file will spend the next several weeks (or months, or years) doing exactly and only that specific application. Much like a Raspberry Pi without an SD card, the console in its factory default state isn't particularly useful because it's not meant to be useful in that state.

(If anything I'd guess that the SD/Quantum-series consoles are actually worse in this regard than the S6L; I've often joked that an SD-series isn't so much a console as a "build your own console kit, some assembly required".)

-Russ

[[email protected]]

And where are people supposed to go to learn all these fancy programming and set up tricks on these consoles?

The classes that Digico puts on are pathetic, at best. And I don't think Avid even bothers to do any training classes at all. So, unless you're an All-Star level mix engineer and can afford to buy your console of choice or work for a production company that is willing to shell out a $1/4 million for one your SOL.

I have got most of my "coolest" tricks from other users. The fact is that with console as flexible as S6L od DiGiCo, there is no way you can teach those tricks. Maybe some, but just a scratch... The real meat comes from discussing people using same tools and sharing experience and knowledge.


That said, Avid has also an excellent manual inside the console, so you can access it without internet. Also Avid has plenty of really good and informative youtube videos and an excellent community where different tricks are shared.

And Avid DOES actually give good hands-on training also thru distributors. I've been on few during the years. Sometimes it is just local rep who does it, sometimes it has been people from Avid. Depending on subject. But obviously that it depending on rep, how they want to address this.

Br,
-Minka-

[[email protected]]

It's my understanding that the L-ISA system and object based mixing integrate better on Digico and Yamaha consoles than it does with Avid also.

I haven't used L-ISA so don't know, but at least for d&b SoundScape there is a fully functional and nice-to-use plug-in for S6L.

[[email protected]]

Here's some things that I've found make it difficult to use the console on a throw-and-go with a bunch of bands...

- A person can't run the console and another person run the Editor at the same time.
- No iPad app for dialling in monitors, checking delays or for another person to help with setup
- I've been told that doing things in Config mode may mute audio, meaning you can't really do some things on the fly; correct me if I'm wrong?
- Add a reverb: Config Mode
- Pair/Unpair channels: Config Mode
- Some things can't be stored in scenes: Pair/Unpair for starters, maybe other things as well like console layouts too?
- Can't link output eq's.
- When doing monitors on the smaller S6L with the single screen, you use up that screen leaving it in the mode where you can select mixes for SOF and Cueing (I was told this is the easiest way). Maybe there's a way to have Mix selection and Cueing on user-define keys so you don't waste channel strips or the screen space?

I've also heard that if you have a show file that's made for a configuration with more channels or outputs than the console you're using, it will load, but when saving, you lose the additional channel settings.

I understand that for many, these are not issues because you have a different workflow. All depends on where you started and what you're used to. But, I would like to know if other people have run into these issues and perhaps with some additional understanding, there might be a "better way" when working with this console.

- A person can't run the console and another person run the Editor at the same time.
*Maybe it's just me, but I don't get what this means? For sure you can use the editor simultaneously if you have it connected but why would you like to do that??? You would be messing up the other guy's work!
It is actually possible with the S6L-48 surface to share the surface with 2 operators. It has that as in-build function. But only for S6L-48 -version.

- No iPad app for dialling in monitors, checking delays or for another person to help with setup
*True, you can only control the level and pan thru the iPad app, although that being said, I use iPad to connect thru VNC to my computer which is connected to S6L and has the editor open in it. Cumbersome? yes. Working? yes.

- I've been told that doing things in Config mode may mute audio, meaning you can't really do some things on the fly; correct me if I'm wrong?
*True. Depending on change it might mute audio for a 1-2 secs. That's why I always disable config mode while running show. All the things you need to do in config mode are things you should not be doing during a show anyway.

- Add a reverb: Config Mode
*Why would you add a reverb during show? Why would you not just add few extras in beginning? I have in my basic showfile 6x reverb, 4x delay, 2x subharmonizer, 4x chorus etc.. just in case.

- Pair/Unpair channels: Config Mode
*Again, why would you need to do this during a show?

- Some things can't be stored in scenes: Pair/Unpair for starters, maybe other things as well like console layouts too?
*All consoles I have been working with, except Yamaha, has the same. Pairing channels to stereo (I assume you mean this) is showfile level thing, and can't be recalled thru "scene" or "snaphot". And with respect to Yamaha, it is not really pairing it does. It is linking, which is different thing.

- Can't link output eq's.
*Not directly, unless you use paired outs (stereo), but you can multiselect multiple outputs and adjust the values on all of those simultaneously. Not just EQ, but EQ also. Only thing that you can't adjust in multiselect is preamp settings.

- When doing monitors on the smaller S6L with the single screen, you use up that screen leaving it in the mode where you can select mixes for SOF and Cueing (I was told this is the easiest way). Maybe there's a way to have Mix selection and Cueing on user-define keys so you don't waste channel strips or the screen space?
*This is something that I can't say for others. It is so much tied up to the way how you do your work-flow etc. I haven't ever done SOF and Cueing like that. I make events to use the color buttons to do that, which means that it does not matter what I'm doing on console I always have a direct access to any monitor send and it swaps the CUE to that send automatically. This is why I run my CUE thru matrix so I ALWAYS, no matter what I do, hear the talkback mics.

- I've also heard that if you have a show file that's made for a configuration with more channels or outputs than the console you're using, it will load, but when saving, you lose the additional channel settings.
*True. It will limit the number of channels to the actual amount that engine can support. But how does it work on other similar systems? Like Rivage? I haven't tried (yet).

- I understand that for many, these are not issues because you have a different workflow. All depends on where you started and what you're used to. But, I would like to know if other people have run into these issues and perhaps with some additional understanding, there might be a "better way" when working with this console.
*I don't personally believe in "better way". I believe in finding ideas and good practices from other users and defining your own way of doing things thru that.

[Andrew Broughton]

If you're just going to ask "why would you do that" for every feature, then there's not much point going any further in the discussion.

[Tim McCulloch]

If you're just going to ask "why would you do that" for every feature, then there's not much point going any further in the discussion.

It's a valid question.  I've wondered how many folks use some of things Scovi had baked into the S6L architecture and what features others use that Scovi hasn't considered.

But none of those things make *any* console walk-up friendly.  Just sayin' Andy.

[[email protected]]

If you're just going to ask "why would you do that" for every feature, then there's not much point going any further in the discussion.

I'm just curious to know why would someone be doing those things that I asked? I have never in my 29yrs of history on live sound field have (or want) to do those things. And if you give me a reason why you would like to do those things I could either 1) find a workaround for you 2) guide you to some other console that might work better to your workflow.

Despite I have a S6L, and love it, does not mean that it would be the perfect match for all...
I used to do a lot with DiGiCo's also, and I do like those, but still would choose S6L over those (well I did choose it when I got it).

Also Yamaha Rivage and CL-series gets you a long way. Especially Rivage. But the price of Rivage is in the same range as S6L and I have found S6L to have less limitations when it comes to my workflow.

Sorry to ask that same question again, but I just don't get why people would want to do so dramatic changes on their showfiles DURING show...

Br,
-Minka-

[Andrew Broughton]

Suffice to say, I do these things all the time without any problem on other consoles. Many of these things are the things that get me and help keep the gigs. I understand that 99% of other sound people might not do things this way, or even attempt to push the envelope like I do (do you control your console over the internet?) but this is what works for me and considering how many years I've been working with many of the companies and artists I have, I must be doing something right.

It's a real peeve of mine whenever I hear the phrase "why would you want to do that". Why? Because I do.
I understand that lots of techs don't feel comfortable doing that, no problem. But if so, then get out of the way so I can give the artist or show what they want. If you haven't had need to do any of these things, then great! Be thankful that your shows are simple and you have plenty of time to pre-build templates and have everything fit into that design.

When someone asks me "how do I do this", I try to figure out a way. If the piece of equipment doesn't support it, I suggest a different one. Like when I was asked "can I control another console over the internet", I don't say "why would you want to do that", I figure out how, and then make it into a business.

[ProSoundWeb Community]