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Author Topic: Why S6L?  (Read 12039 times)

Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #120 on: November 25, 2022, 03:27:31 AM »

This might work if the act is relatively straight forward, and I do occasionally work with that kind of band also, but my main artist, that I had pre-Covid some 100-120 shows / year, and we are slowly getting back there, is something that I could never do that with.

For that show I have a showfile with 100+ Events, 200+ snaphots, which are changing A LOT of stuff (incl. routing, FX sends, FX setups...) and there is NO way to know which songs and in which order they are going to play beforehand.

This is something that they pay good money for me to make possible, and the only way I have figured out so far to make it possible is good pre-work and programming.

edit: typos

I do one artist regularly, have a show file for them. The rest is corporate stuff and one-offs where setting up the console from scratch feels more secure (and is faster for me at least). YMMV and all that.
 
 
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gordonmcgregor

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #121 on: December 24, 2022, 08:36:50 PM »

"Personally only console I have a decent experience and knowhow to use, and that really is a PITA to make big changes fast is dLive. It takes ages to create stereo PAIRS on in, and those are not even stereo channels, just PAIRS, no matter how those are named."

On the dLive stereo channels are simple, admittedly you can only do odd/even side by side but go to the mix rack tab select stereo channels tab and click your channels. yes it causes the surface to stop control while it redraws the fader layout but not for long and you can do this on a computer running director save it a scene then recall it on the surface
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Steve Litcher

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #122 on: December 25, 2022, 02:07:57 PM »

Personally only console I have a decent experience and knowhow to use, and that really is a PITA to make big changes fast is dLive. It takes ages to create stereo PAIRS on in, and those are not even stereo channels, just PAIRS, no matter how those are named.

Genuinely curious about the "PITA" experience with the dLive, because it's probably one of the easiest, most flexible and most forgiving consoles to work with on the fly. Drag-and-drop faders anywhere you'd like; make changes to anything other than mix engine configuration without interrupting audio; easy-to-interpret and adjust routing controls... insert/bypass/remove things like DYN8 on the fly without any hiccups... the list goes on.

Sure, the stereo "pairing" pauses the console while it adjusts (and they may not be true stereo pairs), but how often are you pairing channels during the show? Throw and go, maybe? But I also build/reserve a few channels as stereo pairs and have them waiting to be dragged/dropped into the surface if needed.

Anyone that I've ever shown the dLive to is impressed by how easy it is to work on, so I'm really interested to hear what's difficult to work with on it. Factor in the price point (you could easily purchase 2-3 dLive S5000 systems for the cost of an S6L) and it's even more attractive.

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #123 on: December 25, 2022, 04:23:10 PM »

Genuinely curious about the "PITA" experience with the dLive, because it's probably one of the easiest, most flexible and most forgiving consoles to work with on the fly. Drag-and-drop faders anywhere you'd like; make changes to anything other than mix engine configuration without interrupting audio; easy-to-interpret and adjust routing controls... insert/bypass/remove things like DYN8 on the fly without any hiccups... the list goes on.

Sure, the stereo "pairing" pauses the console while it adjusts (and they may not be true stereo pairs), but how often are you pairing channels during the show? Throw and go, maybe? But I also build/reserve a few channels as stereo pairs and have them waiting to be dragged/dropped into the surface if needed.

Anyone that I've ever shown the dLive to is impressed by how easy it is to work on, so I'm really interested to hear what's difficult to work with on it. Factor in the price point (you could easily purchase 2-3 dLive S5000 systems for the cost of an S6L) and it's even more attractive.

Making stereo channels on the fly without interrupting audio is apparently one of Andy's big issues.  It seems he's expected to build an IEM show file during sound check without any preparatory information or time and any drop outs or artifacts scare the hell out of the talent.

Much like "ringing out" a system on a corporate gig... you can't do it with the client in the building as they assume that means there will be feedback during their event, and no amount of explanation will assuage them.

BTW, I do the same work-around... build stereo channels at the end of the inputs and move them where I need them.
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #124 on: December 25, 2022, 04:26:58 PM »

Making Stereo Channels
IMHO, Yamaha is the only one that gets this right. Link any number of channels together and any or all parameters on the fly. Probably DiGiCo can do this too, but I'm no expert on the DiGiCo.


Quote
It seems he's expected to build an IEM show file during sound check without any preparatory information or time and any drop outs or artifacts scare the hell out of the talent.
Pretty much every gig that has more than one band. (which is pretty much every gig!)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 04:31:07 PM by Andrew Broughton »
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brian maddox

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #125 on: December 25, 2022, 04:29:40 PM »

...

Much like "ringing out" a system on a corporate gig... you can't do it with the client in the building as they assume that means there will be feedback during their event, and no amount of explanation will assuage them.

...

yup
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #126 on: December 25, 2022, 05:00:06 PM »

IMHO, Yamaha is the only one that gets this right. Link any number of channels together and any or all parameters on the fly. Probably DiGiCo can do this too, but I'm no expert on the DiGiCo.
Agree that Yammy has this figured out...

Quote
Pretty much every gig that has more than one band. (which is pretty much every gig!)

Is this a Canada thing?  We at least get an input list (at festivals I have my patch-person meet with *somebody* from the band to confirm the stage plot and input list).  IMSHO, any act that is traveling without a mixerperson for monitors (or who can't send a show file for their IEMs) gets what we are able to deliver in the time available.  Sometimes that's plenty, other times woefully short (as in, there are still things to fix at the last note).   Maybe that's a shitty attitude, but I can only care about the band's show as much as they do.  I have 4 other acts that have their shit together...
« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 05:02:19 PM by Tim McCulloch »
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Russell Ault

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #127 on: December 26, 2022, 04:27:59 PM »

{...} Probably DiGiCo can do this too, but I'm no expert on the DiGiCo. {...}

DiGiCo has a few different options for handling stereo audio (in addition to switching an input or output from mono to stereo there are also "gangs" and "multi-channels"); IIRC, none of them mute audio during configuration (certainly not gangs or multies).

{...} Is this a Canada thing? {...}

Maybe? To me it sounds like the intersection between "the paperwork is always wrong (because updating it is the lowest priority, and time is money)" and "IEMs are so much better (and they're just as easy as wedges, right?)". The pandemic seems to have made everything on tours (particularly small ones) more fluid (which means that the paperwork is even less reflective of reality than it used to be), while at the same time ticket sales are down and costs are up, so the quantity (and, unfortunately, quality) of support personnel has decreased (making it even less likely for the paperwork to get any attention).

-Russ
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #128 on: December 26, 2022, 04:56:56 PM »

Is this a Canada thing?

Doubt it. I'd like to see ANY band show up to any festival without at least a few changes to their stage plot/input list. Can't see it being any different in the USA.
Plenty of bands show up without engineers or any decent stage plot. Often when I'm patch guy I'll offer to make them a proper plot for a nominal fee and occasionally they take me up on it. :-)
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-Andy

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Steve Litcher

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Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #129 on: December 26, 2022, 06:04:03 PM »

Crazy...

I've done just under 6-years worth of busking as FOH/Mons from FOH with the dLive and never considered it to be a PITA. I rather appreciated the ability to throw inputs/outputs/DCAs/Matricies/etc on any fader on any bank on the fly, and all of the other user-friendly UI traits the dLive has. dLive also has ganging option as someone else mentioned, but I find the ganging far less attractive than having 8 stereo paired outputs ready to rock (select 8 Stereo Aux outputs in the mix engine, and you're done/ready to go).

I accepted that 9x out of 10, the info I received (if any) prior to the gig was likely wrong, so I'd plan/build accordingly. On the off-chance that the band showed-up with a significant number of extra people/guests, I kept channels in reserve and it wasn't a big deal to work with. A lot of these were festivals with 20 minute changeovers (gotta love promoters/planners), so I'd do whatever I could to make sure I was prepared.

Did the same with my M32/X32 rigs. Although I'd argue the dLive was infinitely more flexible with changes than the M/X platform was. :)

Thanks for the extra info.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 06:09:00 PM by Steve Litcher »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Why S6L?
« Reply #129 on: December 26, 2022, 06:04:03 PM »


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