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[Roland Clarke]

Believe it or not, I've been doing exactly this for the past 10 years with an average of 10-20 events per year, and none of this ever happened. Respect, care and solidarity are values that anyone can learn, even young party enthusiasts.

Nothing in your statement applies here. The absolute majority of our guests are past their 30s, they are responsible adults and they enjoy listening to dance music every now and then without putting themselves too far on the stone edge. Most DJ's are trained on gain staging basics and sound system knowledge, firstly because I force anyone playing on the PA to follow some guidelines, and second because we strongly believe that a good DJ uses the PA as it's instrument, not just the DJ decks... This might be an outdated philosophy but we stick to it.

If this is the case, why do you run these events illegally?  Surely if you were to run them legitimately you could find a really good venue and work with a good system, rather than one you are hooking up.  I’m assuming the system isn’t really up to snuff, or you wouldn’t be in here picking our collective brains?

[Hadrien Othnin]

If this is the case, why do you run these events illegally?

First off, the system sounds beautifully and exceeds everyone's expectation. It is build to be flexible and insanely fast to build up and down, allowing multiple venues within the same day in case anyone is willing to put a stop to it. Yes, we do say "see you later" to Police when they do not want to negotiate party prolongation, and yes, they do forfeit when they find the same PA running again 90 minutes later on a different location. The current "legal frame" applying to outdoor dance music events where I live is an insult to our intelligence and trying to fit in is a pure waste of time (and money, goes without saying).

Going fully autonomous means I could pick up a truck tomorrow, grab the PA, pick up a nice outdoor location far enough to bother no one and enjoy music with a couple hundred friends and relatives for as long as we want and simply face any situation or consequence as it comes. Applied to Sound Reinforcement and Party making, "illegal" means "free" as long as you are ready to take responsibility for ALL your actions and decisions. It's a fair game and from experience authorities also see it in a similar way, because they can't do much about it.

So the real fun is, because the PA needs to adapt quickly and efficiently to a chaotic environment, extra functions are still needed to make it as close to "plug and play" as it can be. Don't take this literally, we are chasing an ideal because it's fun and because many enthusiasts are learning from it.

The ultimate goal would be :
- Setup/Take Down time of 30 minutes (e.g. from arrival on location to Party ready) performed by mostly inexperienced people following simple step by step guidelines,
- Acoustic correction easily performed using simple tools that any bedroom producer or audiophile could handle after basic training,
- Music is perceived as Clear and Emotional at any listening level over a majority of the dancing area,
- Listener's hearing capabilities and health are not damaged in any way and listening does not lead to mental fatigue even during long time exposure,
- All involved actors are sufficiently satisfied (organizers, guests, neighbors, authorities, ...)

There could be more required criteria in this list but I think it gives a good overview.

[Ivan Beaver]

The ultimate goal would be :
- Setup/Take Down time of 30 minutes (e.g. from arrival on location to Party ready) performed by mostly inexperienced people following simple step by step guidelines,
- Acoustic correction easily performed using simple tools that any bedroom producer or audiophile could handle after basic training,
- Music is perceived as Clear and Emotional at any listening level over a majority of the dancing area,
- Listener's hearing capabilities and health are not damaged in any way and listening does not lead to mental fatigue even during long time exposure,
- All involved actors are sufficiently satisfied (organizers, guests, neighbors, authorities, ...)

There could be more required criteria in this list but I think it gives a good overview.

You have started to describe certain criteria, but have not provided anything technically useful, regarding a system design guide.  You have basic "ideas" that can mean very different things to different people.  You must be able to put some numbers to it, not "feelings".

Certain things I would look for would include: What sort of SPL (weighting and response time) are you looking for at certain distances?, How is it deployed-meaning carried, pushed on wheels, flown, stacked etc., what sort of low freq extension are you looking for (remembering that the lower you go, the larger the system, longer to setup, bigger truck etc)

What sort of limitations do you have (such as cost, physical size, complexity etc)?

I would "argue" that most bedroom producers or "audiophile" do not have the needed tools or skills for proper system alignments/dealing with acoustics etc.

There is more than just "making sound come out".

[Thomas Le]

First off, the system sounds beautifully and exceeds everyone's expectation. It is build to be flexible and insanely fast to build up and down, allowing multiple venues within the same day in case anyone is willing to put a stop to it. Yes, we do say "see you later" to Police when they do not want to negotiate party prolongation, and yes, they do forfeit when they find the same PA running again 90 minutes later on a different location. The current "legal frame" applying to outdoor dance music events where I live is an insult to our intelligence and trying to fit in is a pure waste of time (and money, goes without saying).

Going fully autonomous means I could pick up a truck tomorrow, grab the PA, pick up a nice outdoor location far enough to bother no one and enjoy music with a couple hundred friends and relatives for as long as we want and simply face any situation or consequence as it comes. Applied to Sound Reinforcement and Party making, "illegal" means "free" as long as you are ready to take responsibility for ALL your actions and decisions. It's a fair game and from experience authorities also see it in a similar way, because they can't do much about it.

So the real fun is, because the PA needs to adapt quickly and efficiently to a chaotic environment, extra functions are still needed to make it as close to "plug and play" as it can be. Don't take this literally, we are chasing an ideal because it's fun and because many enthusiasts are learning from it.

The ultimate goal would be :
- Setup/Take Down time of 30 minutes (e.g. from arrival on location to Party ready) performed by mostly inexperienced people following simple step by step guidelines,
- Acoustic correction easily performed using simple tools that any bedroom producer or audiophile could handle after basic training,
- Music is perceived as Clear and Emotional at any listening level over a majority of the dancing area,
- Listener's hearing capabilities and health are not damaged in any way and listening does not lead to mental fatigue even during long time exposure,
- All involved actors are sufficiently satisfied (organizers, guests, neighbors, authorities, ...)

There could be more required criteria in this list but I think it gives a good overview.

- 30 minutes? system tuning alone ate up your time already.
- acoustic correction isn't as easy as you make it out to be.
- your speakers are designed for long throw applications, so this bulletpoint is void.
- depends how loud the system is turned up, your system is outputting 2kW per top speaker so that's pretty loud already.
- don't know about the neighbors and authorities...

[John Bosco]

- 30 minutes? system tuning alone ate up your time already.- acoustic correction isn't as easy as you make it out to be.- your speakers are designed for long throw applications, so this bulletpoint is void.- depends how loud the system is turned up, your system is outputting 2kW per top speaker so that's pretty loud already.- don't know about the neighbors and authorities...

Isn't it pretty clear, when taking into account all of his threads, that he is not really interested in help and/or advice, he's come here for validation. He has outright dismissed some of the best advice from some of our industries most respected minds. He clearly hasn't researched who is giving him this advice and doesn't want to be told he's doing something wrong or there is a better way to do it or he has a fundamental misunderstanding of a concept, he only wants to hear that he's doing it right and I'm sure a little praise would help boost his ego and wouldn't hurt.

Obviously this is just my opinion, I do not know this as a fact, but isn't there a mountain of evidence at this point?

[Hadrien Othnin]

You have started to describe certain criteria, but have not provided anything technically useful, regarding a system design guide.  You have basic "ideas" that can mean very different things to different people.  You must be able to put some numbers to it, not "feelings".

As my very first thread ever on any Live Sound Forum, I now realize that I need to go much farther into the description on the actual condition and give much more details on boundary conditions and objectives.

I'll try to do that in the near future, upcoming holidays might allow some spare time to do so. In the meantime I apologize for the lack of clarity, you people are far too knowledgeable for me to expect any kind of lead if I don't get my questions well prepared. I do not wish to waste anyone's time here, but probing was all I could do with my current skills and knowledge.

I'm looking forward to future exchanges on more solid basis !

[Dave Garoutte]

Isn't it pretty clear, when taking into account all of his threads, that he is not really interested in help and/or advice, he's come here for validation. He has outright dismissed some of the best advice from some of our industries most respected minds. He clearly hasn't researched who is giving him this advice and doesn't want to be told he's doing something wrong or there is a better way to do it or he has a fundamental misunderstanding of a concept, he only wants to hear that he's doing it right and I'm sure a little praise would help boost his ego and wouldn't hurt.

Obviously this is just my opinion, I do not know this as a fact, but isn't there a mountain of evidence at this point?

I don't disagree, and I'm getting a little tired of the back and forth.  I have nothing against his Guerilla Events, but if he's satisfied with his method and results, why is he here?

[Hadrien Othnin]

- 30 minutes? system tuning alone ate up your time already.

if the speakers and subs are always positioned identically, is there still a need for system tuning ?

- acoustic correction isn't as easy as you make it out to be.

it is not easy, however using the same system configuration every time helps when facing recurring issues, at least I see some patterns.

[Hadrien Othnin]

Isn't it pretty clear, when taking into account all of his threads, that he is not really interested in help and/or advice, he's come here for validation. He has outright dismissed some of the best advice from some of our industries most respected minds. He clearly hasn't researched who is giving him this advice and doesn't want to be told he's doing something wrong or there is a better way to do it or he has a fundamental misunderstanding of a concept, he only wants to hear that he's doing it right and I'm sure a little praise would help boost his ego and wouldn't hurt.

Obviously this is just my opinion, I do not know this as a fact, but isn't there a mountain of evidence at this point?

Well I'm sorry to give out such impression... As I said above, it is clear that I need to either give much more details about my interrogations, or I need to ask much more narrow and specific questions to elude some parts of the equation to avoid this back and forth. I am honestly a little overwhelmed by all your answers and it is very hard to get back to baseline.

The point of this thread was to "introduce" some background, as said in the original post, but you guys are jumping on everything with lots of expectations that are not easy to address for me. As some of you are taking this as some sort of aggression, I'll back off and stay still until I find a better way to communicate.

Yet all your criticism have been very useful to understand what really matters to at least describe a system and it's application and I am looking forward to do just that.

[Scott Holtzman]

Well I'm sorry to give out such impression... As I said above, it is clear that I need to either give much more details about my interrogations, or I need to ask much more narrow and specific questions to elude some parts of the equation to avoid this back and forth. I am honestly a little overwhelmed by all your answers and it is very hard to get back to baseline.

The point of this thread was to "introduce" some background, as said in the original post, but you guys are jumping on everything with lots of expectations that are not easy to address for me. As some of you are taking this as some sort of aggression, I'll back off and stay still until I find a better way to communicate.

Yet all your criticism have been very useful to understand what really matters to at least describe a system and it's application and I am looking forward to do just that.

You had many similar threads going at the same time also, that was somewhat annoying.  The whole graphic EQ discussion bordered on pedantic. 


Where do you get your power for these ad hoc venues?


It's fine you are not motivated by financial means but most of us here earn our living in some sector of the industry.  You want to have a discussion and engage the hive mind here keep it to one thread at a time and be very clear what you are discussing. 


Out of personal curiosity what country are you in that looks the other way at squatters?

[ProSoundWeb Community]