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[Hadrien Othnin]

Seriously? Are there drugs and alcohol involved in these raves?

Obviously Yes, however a part of our collective work goes towards serious, proactive prevention and education on these topics. Because we are determined to organize good parties for many more years, drugs and alcohol are very serious topics that we do not put under the carpet. This even go to dedicated sound tuning practices oriented towards psycho acoustic effects to willingly create a sound as easy as possible to listen to, therefore reducing mental fatigue and increasing natural sociability, which then lead to a decrease of drugs & Alcohol consumption.

Alcohol being the easier one to maintain to a reasonable consumption, by having a donation based bar (offering only light beers and alcohol free drinks) we prevent our guests from buying hard alcohol, as they know donating to us allows to pay for basic expenses like Gas and some rental equipment to support local Audio companies. So Yes, our guests usually drink quite some beer, but don't forget this is mostly taking place in Germany, people here drink beers like I drink water.

[Brian Jojade]

There are lots of laws that I disagree with.  However, that doesn't mean I get to just pick and choose which ones to follow.....

(ok, yeah, I do, but I don't generally discuss which ones I'm not following in a public forum)

[Kevin Maxwell]

I only just read this thread. I didn’t realize that you were talking about events (your Raves) or shows or whatever you want to call them are for such a small number of people. I don’t know why I thought these were bigger events. I hardly ever do any events that are intended for that small of an audience. The equipment requirements for events of that size is a lot smaller than I thought you were talking about. I still have no desire to be involved in EDM shows even though the systems I use could probably do EDM for that small of a crowd.

I will make an observation about music playback and frequency response in general. One event I got hired for was relatively small compared to what I usually do. They wanted back ground music. The problem that I find with this is maybe what you are referring to. With everyone talking you then have to turn up the music for anyone to hear it over the talking and then they talk louder and you have to turn up the music louder and this keeps happening until it is too loud for back ground music. And as the music was playing I noticed that without it too loud in this event I could hear the bottom end of the music without it being too loud. This music was not distinguishable with just hearing the bottom end you couldn’t distinguish what the songs were. So since that event I have said it would be nice if there was music produced that was just meant to be used as back ground music that had the melody played by instruments that are in the lower registers. The style of music that we are given to play for these events wouldn’t work if I were to shape the tonality (I am not sure that is the proper word) to have a lot less high end. I may try it at some time but I haven’t done that type of event where they wanted back ground music in a while. I hardly ever do events where they want walk in music or playback during breaks. And when I say a lot less high end I am not talking about a shrill sounding system at all. But it will make taking over it hard. I will have to play with that.     

[Hadrien Othnin]

To mitigate this recurring event of people talking louder over the music, every incremental volume increase must be followed by adaption compression settings and applying EQ on every frequency band perceived as "louder than people talking". It appears to me that as volume rises, new acoustic behaviors will enhance different parts of the frequency spectrum. Targeting theses frequencies step by step following volume increases allows to tame unwanted interference as early as possible, giving sooner than later a "loud sound" having all its too loud content tamed to match tonal balance. Frequency response is far from linear, but allows to keep acoustic events under their threshold(s).

One note about a specific characteristic of the PA design, as we are talking about a "small" dancefloor, people can litterally touch the Sub+Tops stacks, so they can get pretty close, therefore getting a serious pressure feeling and actively becoming acoustic treatment to some extend. At least covering a significant of reverberation on the floor.

[Doug Jane]

To mitigate this recurring event of people talking louder over the music, every incremental volume increase must be followed by adaption compression settings and applying EQ on every frequency band perceived as "louder than people talking". It appears to me that as volume rises, new acoustic behaviors will enhance different parts of the frequency spectrum. Targeting theses frequencies step by step following volume increases allows to tame unwanted interference as early as possible, giving sooner than later a "loud sound" having all its too loud content tamed to match tonal balance. Frequency response is far from linear, but allows to keep acoustic events under their threshold(s).

One note about a specific characteristic of the PA design, as we are talking about a "small" dancefloor, people can litterally touch the Sub+Tops stacks, so they can get pretty close, therefore getting a serious pressure feeling and actively becoming acoustic treatment to some extend. At least covering a significant of reverberation on the floor.

Hmmm. What drugs are you an again?

[Paul Mayer]

...

It's a very interesting design, and I appreciate the work and thought you've put into this.  A few comments (I do PA work and also DJ and often bring my own PA to events under 2,000-5,000 people):
For one, I think you have too much stuff in the signal chain before your amplifier.  One of the challenges is finding the tradeoff between the benefit added for each step with the loss of additional cables, patches, and (what could be the worst for a high-quality system) repeated A/D and D/A processing.
For instance, instead of a DCX2496, you can upgrade your amp to something like an iTech HD which has lots of nice signal processing features - compression, EQ, etc, and accepts a digital input.  I DJ a lot of genres like Trance and I find mastered music is often heavily compressed and limited, so I tend to not like putting a bunch of stuff on the signal chain for music that is already heavily mastered and limited to begin with.  If there are tracks I'm playing that I need to "remaster," I'll do that offline before a gig and render it down so it mixes well with the other songs I'm playing, so I'm not squishing the dynamics out of many tracks even more.  I am inclined to recommend a Driverack instead of the DCX, but I haven't used the DCX enough to say.  Your Xilica XD-4080 offers AES digital in/out plus many of the same EQ and compression you may want from the outboard gear you have listed.
I'm also not sure you need a preamp, but do keep in mind plenty of this analog gear responds in a nonlinear fashion to the level of the input signal plus other factors such as temperature, humidity, etc.

I used to use a lot of sound processors, things of that nature and found personally that its often better and easier to stick to the basics.  A small sound mixer like an M32C with a DL32 on a rack would allow you to have dedicated mics, other types of inputs that are pre-processed with EQ.  This could be run digitally into either the Xilica or a digital-accepting amp like an iTech HD.  From here, you could control the parameters of EQ and compression remotely and be able to use FIR filters which you cannot do with analog gear.  You could still adjust the EQ and gain and such throughout the night from an iPad and have scenes you save/recall for different artists or locations.  I've run the Midas stuff but usually use a Mackie DL16s for mixer duties for size reasons and I am happy with the results.

One thing that bothers me greatly about all this DJ gear is the lack of digital outputs, especially since we are generally playing digital files anyways.  Many of my own amps and self-powered speakers offer AES inputs, so this would avoid any of the artifacts added by this processing.

For many events I've made the switch to self-powered speakers like Bassboss, Fulcrum's discontinued powered FA line and have gotten incredible performance out of these systems.  They have built in phase alignment, protection, and offer great sound and reliability, though I understand why you would want to keep the system you have for now.  The main benefit to me is not having to worry about the system all the time being overdriven, overblown, etc.  The value in this peace-of-mind alone is worth it, let alone the convenience factor.  Since I've made this switch, I haven't been happy with any passive subs since except for the LAcoustics SB28 (and even that was missing what I was used to).  If I was doing the same size events you were doing, I'd bring the VS21s with Fulcrum FA22ac's on top with short ring lock poles.  I have a simple 4U rack I've built with a mini mixer for volume control, EQ, RTA, mic compression, and so on that I'd run everything through for processing.  This system sounds phenomenal and gets plenty loud, though when pushed the subs will outrun the tops.  I say this not to try and persuade you to go the self-powered route, but instead to illustrate that I don't need a ton of gear or wiring to get the sound I want at any volume.

If I was building a system for up to 500 people or so, I'd probably go with a pair of Bassboss VS21 with something like the AT312 2k (or the 212's) on top with a coupler pole.  I'd then use either Fulcrum FA22ac's or the Diamon 112's as booth monitors.  This system would offer extreme SPL with incredible sound quality at any level.  The benefit is the entire set of mains could be run on a single 20A line, and I would be fine running the monitors and all other gear on another.  RC1 makes some great stuff too I wouldn't hesitate to look into.

[Roland Clarke]

I was kind of expecting that one so allow me to elaborate. If I would need to compare Illegal to Legal in this case, the only difference would lie in Paperwork and legal authorization. All technical aspects are handled by people with professional background (Sound, light, electricity, transport, ...) with a very high concern for safety, that I am yet to see matched in most "legal" venues all around. Especially, and this is a major factor, when it comes to Sound being absolutely SAFE to listen to.

As a music and event organization, our strategy to convince authorities to tolerate our gatherings is to be absolutely flawless on all safety related aspects, that include being above legal sanitary measures when applicable. We perform "illegal" events because we do not tolerate the official route needed to obtain legal authorization in both France and Germany. We believe that listening to music and being able to dance freely should not be something to ask permission for as long as it is done seriously and responsibly, which we do each and every time 

That being said, this "boundary condition" leads to very unusual constraints to take in account while investigating System Optimization paths. For example, it is quite common to have a sudden need to change the party location entirely, which leads to the whole PA to be taken down, transported and rebuilt within the shortest possible time frame (current baseline is under 2 hrs from Stop to Restart without sacrificing safety). This also means the exact same PA is used for very different crowd size, ranging from less than 30 to above 300, and that the highest sound quality must be reached at various SPL, not only at full capacity.

There are numerous factors impacted by the "illegal" aspect of our music event which is why I think it is relevant to mention it, otherwise I would need to create a fake scenario which would mislead any reader entirely. I hope this is convincing, if not I will gladly dive deeper on that matter.

Not that professional, because providing for an illegal event could end up with your gear being trashed, stolen or confiscated, not to mention prosecution, none of which is appealing to those seeking to make a living in the field.  In terms of technical specification, it’s people playing club music in a field or gorilla venue.  Esoteric it ain’t.  It’s loud, the audience is likely stoned and most DJ’s have little clue about not redlining their mix, these are not elements in the quality end of the market.

[Hadrien Othnin]

because providing for an illegal event could end up with your gear being trashed, stolen or confiscated, not to mention prosecution

Believe it or not, I've been doing exactly this for the past 10 years with an average of 10-20 events per year, and none of this ever happened. Respect, care and solidarity are values that anyone can learn, even young party enthusiasts.

In terms of technical specification, it’s people playing club music in a field or gorilla venue.  Esoteric it ain’t.  It’s loud, the audience is likely stoned and most DJ’s have little clue about not redlining their mix

Nothing in your statement applies here. The absolute majority of our guests are past their 30s, they are responsible adults and they enjoy listening to dance music every now and then without putting themselves too far on the stone edge. Most DJ's are trained on gain staging basics and sound system knowledge, firstly because I force anyone playing on the PA to follow some guidelines, and second because we strongly believe that a good DJ uses the PA as it's instrument, not just the DJ decks... This might be an outdated philosophy but we stick to it.

[Brian Jojade]

Do the DJs use MP3's?

[Thomas Le]

The saying goes "if you aren't redlining, you aren't headlining".

Do the DJs use MP3's?

[ProSoundWeb Community]