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[Philip Moseley]

Hi
I mix for 4 bands who each have their own PA systems and the lead vocalist for 3 of em all use a wireless SM58. And all of them sound uninspiring and give me feedback problems that I just don't have with wired 58s. Plus I was watching another sound guy struggle with a crap-sounding wireless 58 that he swapped out at intermission with a wired 58 that sounded much better.

Now I realize I am only a mere weekend warrior, but I've been a weekend warrior for a long time and I am definitely noticing a pattern here. I would like to hear from anyone who has noticed the same issues and what - if anything - you did to address the problem. Singers are telling me they spent stupid money for their wireless systems and I don't want to tell them that a 99 dollar wired mic is the solution if it isn't.
Thank you
Phil

[Jeff Lelko]

Hi Phil, two things come to mind here:

What’s the wireless system being used?  The best capsule in the world will sound like garbage if the wireless part of the rig is having interference or dropouts.

Regarding the feedback, is the wireless version being walked around the stage (and into places it shouldn’t be) compared to a wired mic on a stand?  I’ve run into wandering presenters many times who can’t seem to figure out why walking the mic right in front of a speaker is bad.  Wired mics tend to stay where you leave them.

Hope this helps!

[Brian Jojade]

It typically costs about $1000 to get a wireless mic that sounds ALMOST as good as a $30 cable.

Wired will ALWAYS sound better.  Back a few years ago, cheap wireless was all but useless.  These days with digital systems you can sometimes get acceptable results with cheaper stuff, but again, it's never going to be as good as that piece of wire.

[Bob Stone]

Are you sure they were SM58's and not PGA58's?

I have a couple channels of the cheaper BLX wireless (about as low as you can go from Shure), one with an SM58 capsule and another one with the Beta58 capsule....I can't notice any sonic differences with my wired SM58's, though I don't have a Beta58 wired to compare to.

[Jay Marr]

I've got a wireless 58 and a Beta 58 capsule, both sound great.
I gig with a Sennheiser 945 (and have a 965, which on small stages is a feedback machine).
I like the 945 and Beta 58 very much....but the regular 58 still sounds great.

Wonder if they had the gain set properly on the handset?

[Dave Pluke]

What’s the wireless system being used?  The best capsule in the world will sound like garbage if the wireless part of the rig is having interference or dropouts.

Agreed.

Also, make sure it's not a counterfeit SM58 capsule. Or that the capsule in question isn't defective. Spin a known-good capsule on the mic and compare.

Dave

[Sean Anderson]

I've got a wireless 58 and a Beta 58 capsule, both sound great.
I gig with a Sennheiser 945 (and have a 965, which on small stages is a feedback machine).
I like the 945 and Beta 58 very much....but the regular 58 still sounds great.

Wonder if they had the gain set properly on the handset?

Topic swerve, but I'm surprised about the 965 in your experience. I just used one for accordian with a loud latin band on a small stage. No issues. Nor any feedback issues from a horn player with the mic down low close to the wedge.

On topic, I have a cheap blx and one sm58 capsule and it sounds way better than the pg58 capsule that came with the set. I use these as drunk mics at weddings, my good sennheiser stuff doesn't get used for best-person speeches! They always sound ok... but can easily drop out after 30'.

[Bob Stone]

Topic swerve, but I'm surprised about the 965 in your experience. I just used one for accordian with a loud latin band on a small stage. No issues. Nor any feedback issues from a horn player with the mic down low close to the wedge.

On topic, I have a cheap blx and one sm58 capsule and it sounds way better than the pg58 capsule that came with the set. I use these as drunk mics at weddings, my good sennheiser stuff doesn't get used for best-person speeches! They always sound ok... but can easily drop out after 30'.

That's funny, my BLX stuff has been fine 100 feet line of sight no issues...even through a crowd of people.

[Sean Anderson]

That's funny, my BLX stuff has been fine 100 feet line of sight no issues...even through a crowd of people.

Haha! It's great how those little things that happen on site mold our perceptions of gear on a regular basis. It's fascinating the breadth of experience

[Tim McCulloch]

Based a skim of replies and my personal experience:  cheap wireless sounds bad.  It's not the SM-58 capsule, it's the RF link that sucks.

Now about other capsules - the SM48... sucks.  The PG58... sucks.

I've worked with Shure BLX (owned by a youth theater company) and they don't outright suck, but they come with their own set of compromises and limitations that may become issues (or not).

A recent "local act festival" had a couple bands with their own vocal wireless.  Not sure what all of it was but in one act the lead singer brought her own and there was no amount of EQ that could fix what I didn't like about the sound.  Another act, it was a male singer that sounded like there was a packing blanket between his mouth and the mic.  Again, no EQ fix for it that worked.  Bah humbug.

[Mike Santarelli]

As an owner of ULXD and QLXD, I cannot tell a difference between wired and wireless mics that are the same. 

I have had issues using peoples' lower end wireless that just sounded bad. 

[Debbie Dunkley]

Not the answer to OP question directly but addressing the BLX system.
I have a Shure BLX receiver which I use with a corresponding body pack but I replaced the headset mic that came with it for a high end one for singing from FOH. I have to say it has been fantastic.
I chose to do things this way round to stay within my budget - I spent good money on a quality mic but less on the wireless system.
In crowded places or where I am a little farther from the stage, I set an antenna up high on the same stand as my WAP which combats drop out really well. It is important that my signal is good because I am relied upon to sing a lot of harmonies in one particular band and we cannot afford for them to be missing. The only problem I have to be aware of is latency if I am a little too far from the stage so I try to make my FOH position a bit of a compromise - but it works...

[Brian Jojade]

As an owner of ULXD and QLXD, I cannot tell a difference between wired and wireless mics that are the same. 

I have had issues using peoples' lower end wireless that just sounded bad.

While the ULXD/QLXD mics are pretty amazing (I own QLXD's) they are not 100% transparent compared to an identical mic, especially when you push them to dynamic extremes.

[Thomas Le]

Hopping on the BLX pile. I've worked with the BLX4 internal antennae version, they're really bad range wise, I literally had to put the receiver on top of a speaker on a stand to get usable range. The BLX4R rackmount version with the external antenna works way better. The SM58 version sounds ok to my ear, though it was mainly used for karaoke events. I'd never use BLX level gear for any regular show, that's where my EW135 G3 rack comes in. Just a theory, but maybe the BLX4R is a rehash of the old SLX. SM58 on SLX also sounds ok, again not used for major shows.

[Debbie Dunkley]

Hopping on the BLX pile. I've worked with the BLX4 internal antennae version, they're really bad range wise, I literally had to put the receiver on top of a speaker on a stand to get usable range. The BLX4R rackmount version with the external antenna works way better. The SM58 version sounds ok to my ear, though it was mainly used for karaoke events. I'd never use BLX level gear for any regular show, that's where my EW135 G3 rack comes in. Just a theory, but maybe the BLX4R is a rehash of the old SLX. SM58 on SLX also sounds ok, again not used for major shows.

Mine is the rack version...... which is how I am able to extend the antennas.

[Philip Moseley]

Hi Guys
Thanks very much for all the responses.
One of my clients (an 80s hair band) likes to wander around the house, but I never have a problem with it. However, when he's back where he should be, if he turns to face the drummer all hell breaks loose. I know he has a 58 with a Shure receiver that he said he paid nearly a grand for. And it actually sounds very nice.

The singer from the band that prompted my original post - well, I'm not certain at all what she is using, but I will definitely check next time I mix them, although they only tend to play once a month. I looked at some pictures of the Shure range, and the 58 looks almost identical to the cheaper options. And it might not be a Shure at all - could be a no-name clone. Could be I'm clutching at straws.
She likes to wander a bit, but it was no worse than when she was back on stage. And they have no monitors on stage.

Maybe I'm the problem.
Later
Phil

[Tim Halligan]

However, when he's back where he should be, if he turns to face the drummer all hell breaks loose.

That will happen regardless of the mic being cabled or wireless.

One of the best uses for singers as a living drum shield, and - surprisingly - they are quite effective at it.

Perhaps it's because they are so thick. 

Cheers,
Tim

[David Sturzenbecher]

The mic capsule on wireless mics can go bad, especially if they have been dropped. If you have two wireless, and one sounds good and the other doesn’t, swap the capsules and see if the problem follows the transmitter or the capsule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Tim McCulloch]

Hi Guys
Thanks very much for all the responses.
One of my clients (an 80s hair band) likes to wander around the house, but I never have a problem with it. However, when he's back where he should be, if he turns to face the drummer all hell breaks loose. I know he has a 58 with a Shure receiver that he said he paid nearly a grand for. And it actually sounds very nice.

The singer from the band that prompted my original post - well, I'm not certain at all what she is using, but I will definitely check next time I mix them, although they only tend to play once a month. I looked at some pictures of the Shure range, and the 58 looks almost identical to the cheaper options. And it might not be a Shure at all - could be a no-name clone. Could be I'm clutching at straws.
She likes to wander a bit, but it was no worse than when she was back on stage. And they have no monitors on stage.

Maybe I'm the problem.
Later
Phil

Likely more than one problem, and the first is receiver location - it needs to be on stage, perhaps UPSTAGE and elevated so the the antennae "see" the transmitter regardless of where it is in the house/stage.  If the receiver is at FOH, that's likely part of the problem.

Second, I think a channel scan is in order, along with verifying that the wireless system is not being used above 602mHz.  The 600-800mHz spectrum has been removed from TV use which means we can no longer operate unlicensed wireless systems in that range (T-Mobile, Verizon, ATT, American Tower, and smaller cellular companies now have 10 year licenses for that spectrum).

[Ike Zimbel]

Hi Guys
Thanks very much for all the responses.
One of my clients (an 80s hair band) likes to wander around the house, but I never have a problem with it. However, when he's back where he should be, if he turns to face the drummer all hell breaks loose. I know he has a 58 with a Shure receiver that he said he paid nearly a grand for. And it actually sounds very nice.

The singer from the band that prompted my original post - well, I'm not certain at all what she is using, but I will definitely check next time I mix them, although they only tend to play once a month. I looked at some pictures of the Shure range, and the 58 looks almost identical to the cheaper options. And it might not be a Shure at all - could be a no-name clone. Could be I'm clutching at straws.
She likes to wander a bit, but it was no worse than when she was back on stage. And they have no monitors on stage.

Maybe I'm the problem.
Later
Phil

Next time you have the mic in your hands, try jingling some keys in front of the capsule and see what you hear. The "key test" was the terror of RF mic exhibitors on trade show floors for a long time. What it does, is see how the companding circuitry in the RF link deals with transients. A really, really good system will give you the sound of jingling keys, cheaper (and cheaper, and cheaper...) systems will give you a series of muffled thumps as the compander circuit tries to deal. So, if your singer is suddenly in front of some raging cymbals, the audio quality of the mic may take a dive.
WRT some other responses, I would argue that drop outs and poor RF link are going to be audible as their own thing and not a reflection on the capsule being used. I would also second the suggestion to make sure you are dealing with a genuine SM-58 capsule, even from Shure, as they have some cheaper versions that look similar.

[brian maddox]

Next time you have the mic in your hands, try jingling some keys in front of the capsule and see what you hear. The "key test" was the terror of RF mic exhibitors on trade show floors for a long time. What it does, is see how the companding circuitry in the RF link deals with transients. A really, really good system will give you the sound of jingling keys, cheaper (and cheaper, and cheaper...) systems will give you a series of muffled thumps as the compander circuit tries to deal. So, if your singer is suddenly in front of some raging cymbals, the audio quality of the mic may take a dive.
WRT some other responses, I would argue that drop outs and poor RF link are going to be audible as their own thing and not a reflection on the capsule being used. I would also second the suggestion to make sure you are dealing with a genuine SM-58 capsule, even from Shure, as they have some cheaper versions that look similar.

The Ike is wise. Listen to the Ike... 

Seriously, the key thing is golden. Great tip!

[Russell Ault]

{...} A really, really good system will give you the sound of jingling keys, cheaper (and cheaper, and cheaper...) systems will give you a series of muffled thumps as the compander circuit tries to deal. {...}

I think Sennheiser disagrees with your price/key-test-performance correlation: in my experience the HDX compander found in their cheaper gear tends to do way better with the key test than their flagship HiDyn plus. Of course, if you throw a fader labelled "Chorus" and simultaneously open a few dozen channels-worth of SK 100 G4s, the audible noise floor increase makes it pretty clear why their flagship product has the more aggressive compander.

Digital isn't perfect, but one thing I don't miss when using it is having to worry so much about the interactions between the companding circuit and the signal's contents.

-Russ

[Daniel Levi]

Of course, it could be some old non-shure wireless with a sm58 head that's seen better days, there were a few manufacturers back in the day that had sm58 heads as an option, TOA, Trantec and Samson are just some of them.

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