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[Dwayne Aasberg]

Good evening.

We intend to install two hanging mics over the seating area of our sanctuary to gather crowd singing/responses during webcasts.  Our first intention was to use a pair of Shure MX202 as we have experience with those for our choir.  However, flipping the screens of the modern Yellow Pages (St. Google) I've discovered Shure CVO and Audio-Technica Pro 45 as potential alternates.

The mics will be hung so they point directly away from the flown speaker array at the front of the sanctuary.  As well, they will never be routed to the FOH mix, they will only feed into the webcast mix.

Can anyone provide pros or cons for any of these alternatives?

Thx in advance for your responses.
Dwayne A

[Dave Pluke]

The mics will be hung so they point directly away from the flown speaker array at the front of the sanctuary.  As well, they will never be routed to the FOH mix, they will only feed into the webcast mix.

Also be careful not to pick up HVAC noise. A notch filter may be required to cut some paper-rustling frequencies.

Haven't used any of the mics you mentioned (have used Earthworks for Choirs and low cost LDCs for Audience) but, if you're happy with the MX202, why not be consistent?

Dave

[william adams]

Good evening.

We intend to install two hanging mics over the seating area of our sanctuary to gather crowd singing/responses during webcasts.  Our first intention was to use a pair of Shure MX202 as we have experience with those for our choir.  However, flipping the screens of the modern Yellow Pages (St. Google) I've discovered Shure CVO and Audio-Technica Pro 45 as potential alternates.

The mics will be hung so they point directly away from the flown speaker array at the front of the sanctuary.  As well, they will never be routed to the FOH mix, they will only feed into the webcast mix.

Can anyone provide pros or cons for any of these alternatives?

Thx in advance for your responses.
Dwayne A

As a viewer I would say do not do that. YMMV.

If you insist beware of standing waves and echoes where you put them.  DA already noted HVAC noise
Might survey home viewers to se what they say before deciding.

[Rick Earl]

I do a lot of broadcast audio for sports, which includes crowd mics.  Most "hanging mics" are not that great.  I prefer rigging a good mic and letting that hang, it is not much more intrusive and you get a better sounding mic.  ACE backstage and AEA both mic mic hangers slugs.  Right now we have been using OKTAVA MK-102 "Film Kit" mics which are a hyper-cardioid capsule and a HPF in a nice pencil condenser package.  They are prices right, rugged and you can avoid HVA noise, etc.  We will deploy 5 of them this weekend (in the rain) for a football game.     You can experiment with mic stands before you go to the trouble to hang, to make sure placement works and gives you what you need.   I also recommend active mixing of you broadcast mix, as you probably don't want them up all the time for certain parts of the service. 

[Paul Johnson]

Oddly, as soon as you said not for PA, I breathed out. For the webcast, I'd be happy with flown mics. The biggest annoyance I ever get is that they are aimed not just at the people, but their feet - so if their feet make noises, you get them.

[Mike Caldwell]

Hanging mic are fine for room, ambient, congregation singing, just keep them away from air vents.

Hanging mics for choirs....in my opinion not so great. Much better results with even average mics on stands pointed at the choir.

[Dwayne Aasberg]

I prefer rigging a good mic and letting that hang, it is not much more intrusive and you get a better sounding mic.

What is 'rigging' and 'letting that hang'?

You can experiment with mic stands before you go to the trouble to hang, to make sure placement works and gives you what you need.   I also recommend active mixing of you broadcast mix, as you probably don't want them up all the time for certain parts of the service.

Have been doing both for over a year now.  Getting tired of people kicking the mic stands, or moving them so they aren't 'pointing' at them in the congregation.  Have had good quality sound when not interfered with.  Yes, and active mixing is key.

Will start experimenting with actual hanging mics in next weeks.

D

[Rick Earl]

What is 'rigging' and 'letting that hang'?

Using something like this: https://www.acebackstage.com/product/microphone-hanger-slug/

or this: https://www.aearibbonmics.com/products/long-microphone-hanger/

or if you're handy, see how those are made and roll your own.

[Pat Hamp]

Also be careful not to pick up HVAC noise. A notch filter may be required to cut some paper-rustling frequencies.

Haven't used any of the mics you mentioned (have used Earthworks for Choirs and low cost LDCs for Audience) but, if you're happy with the MX202, why not be consistent?

Dave

Been there done that, do a check of the noise floor with an analyzer and if possible, record the session so you can figure out what frequencies you need to address. If its variable speed air handlers, make sure it's on high and check in both heat and AC mode.  Also are the ducts vaned or regulated to reduce noise?  I worked in a church once where the GC for build didn't have an acoustician look at his mechanicals and the place was 80 plus until the fan speeds were adjusted and duct work was insulated and vaned. It's amazing what the base ambient noise level can be depending on construction and configuration. Best of luck.

[BrianSimmons]

Good evening.

We intend to install two hanging mics over the seating area of our sanctuary to gather crowd singing/responses during webcasts.  Our first intention was to use a pair of Shure MX202 as we have experience with those for our choir.  However, flipping the screens of the modern Yellow Pages (St. Google) I've discovered Shure CVO and Audio-Technica Pro 45 as potential alternates.

The mics will be hung so they point directly away from the flown speaker array at the front of the sanctuary.  As well, they will never be routed to the FOH mix, they will only feed into the webcast mix.

Can anyone provide pros or cons for any of these alternatives?

Thx in advance for your responses.
Dwayne A

Are these going to supplement other crowd mics, or will these be your first?

If it's your first, I'd suggest trying out some other spare mics that you might have access to before deciding to purchase more equipment.  Crowd mics don't need to be flown over the audience to be effective.  Most facilities will have crowd mics located on the stage pointed at the crowd.  You can try these arrangement with what you already have and see if the results are acceptable.

Of course if you already have those types of mics and want to supplement them, then adding some hanging mics might work well, although shotgun mics can work well too (might be mounted on side walls pointed across the audience or up high pointed down)

[Jerome Malsack]

Are these going to supplement other crowd mics, or will these be your first?

If it's your first, I'd suggest trying out some other space mics that you might have access to before deciding to purchase more equipment.  Crowd mics don't need to be flown over the audience to be effective.  Most facilities will have crowd mics located on the stage pointed at the crowd.  You can try these arrangement with what you already have and see if the results are acceptable.

Of course if you already have those types of mics and want to supplement them, then adding some hanging mics might work well, although shotgun mics can work well too (might be mounted on side walls pointed across the audience or up high pointed down)

I would also say to ensure not being too close to ceiling fans as well    whosh whosh whosh whosh. 

[Dwayne Aasberg]

Hello all.

In the end we installed two Audio-Technica Pro 45 hung from beams in the middle of sanctuary, one on either side of the main aisle.  The mics have a built in angle mechanism that holds them about 30°-down off horizonal.  They hang just at outstretched arm distance from the floor.  They are miles away (probably >50') from all air handling and HVAC elements, and are positioned exactly away from the flown speaker.  We have them connected to two inputs on the FOH M32, but that is just because that is the closest XLR input.  The mics are not used in the FOH mix and are passed via AES50 to the broadcast mixing M32C.  In the BC mix the mics are low-cut filtered around 200 Hz and hi-cut filtered around 3k Hz.

These are the only mics used to capture congregational audio.  We did experiment with Shure SM81s at different locations, but could not devise a combination that provided low maintenance and acceptable audio content for the broadcast stream.

The result has been exactly what we hoped for.  We get great input of congregation spoken responses and singing with the praise bands.  We even get kids crying, coughs and impromptu responses during the Pastors' messages.  We leave them live (but turned down a bit) during run up and post-service along with wide camera angles of the sanctuary to give in house experience to our remote participants.  However, like every other input, we do not un-mute and forget.  The audio-send to video for streaming is constantly monitored and adjusted - constantly.

All in all a success.  Thx all for your input.
Dwayne A

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