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[brian maddox]

Out of curiosity, why are pastors involved in loudspeaker selection?  Even/especially in a HoW, we soundies do not inject ourselves into theology.

You've clearly never worked at a church...

[not that you're wrong, to be clear]

[Paul Johnson]

If it's for announcements and background music, the cost of installation points to high voltage distribution and remote amps. Vastly more cheap to instigate. One thin, cheap cable to each cluster of rooms, and no messing with power to each speaker and also the need to run long lengths of screen cable. Ground loops with a large site and remote grounding potentials suggest all kinds of hum issues may suddenly arise when you have two very different ground potentials, so that will mean testing different products and maybe finding transformer couplers. For a few announcements with no need for local input, just run some cable to multi tap transformer speakers for volume.

[Hal Bissinger/COMSYSTEC]

You've clearly never worked at a church...

[not that you're wrong, to be clear]

Where was it said that churches that work like that will never have an acceptable installation?


-Hal

[Stephen Swaffer]

Out of curiosity, why are pastors involved in loudspeaker selection?  Even/especially in a HoW, we soundies do not inject ourselves into theology.

To be fair Tim, I have had multiple theological give and take discussions with my pastor (the substance of which is not suitable fodder for this forum so I will not include examples).

I feel like there is room for a pastor/leader to have a vision for what he wants-especially if he is inclined to study the subject enough to be conversant and know more than the average keyboard warrior about the subject.  I would far rather have a leader passionate about the sound and "production" (though I hate that term as I feel it devalues the purpose of a service) even if he takes an occasional wrong turn than one that doesn't care and doesn't move enough to take a turn that might be wrong.

I have also had soundies come in and say "You can't do that-pastor has to change what he does and what he wants"-then I proceeded to find a way to do what the pastor wanted with a decent sounding system (based on 'customer feedback' not my opinion).  I get it that cookie cutter installs make money quicker-but sometimes other solutions fit the customer better.

It looks like Extron has some attractive offerings-now to find a reseller

[Erik Jerde]

I feel like there is room for a pastor/leader to have a vision for what he wants-especially if he is inclined to study the subject enough to be conversant and know more than the average keyboard warrior about the subject.

I completely agree with this.  It's leadership's role to supply mission and vision and on the tech side we get to figure out how to accomplish that.  Oftentimes that vision is expressed in ways that we have to decode.  It's a lot like mixing monitors for an artist who tells you that their monitor is too brown (I think I know what that means) or too purple (no idea).  Having a good relationship with your leadership helps immensely.

[Tim McCulloch]

I completely agree with this.  It's leadership's role to supply mission and vision and on the tech side we get to figure out how to accomplish that.  Oftentimes that vision is expressed in ways that we have to decode.  It's a lot like mixing monitors for an artist who tells you that their monitor is too brown (I think I know what that means) or too purple (no idea).  Having a good relationship with your leadership helps immensely.

Mind-reading.  Check.  Especially helps if you're mixing monitors.

I don't disagree that the CTO (chief theology officer) sets a vision for whatever the mission, task, or goal.  I guess I've worked with too many micro-managers that want me to provide some confirmation for their choices made, rather than accept my Zen-like approach to understanding what they want - not necessarily what they say they want - and have me develop options for their review.

My role is to 'help tell the story'.  What hardware, software, and wetware is available and what combinations affect the way the story is told, is heard, is interpreted, and is recorded?  How do the tellers want to be presented, what's important to them?

So yes, ultimately this exploration may get into theology and ritual that are specific or especially meaningful to a particular group, and really that's not a bad thing.  But K2 vs something else?  I'd hope the Sr pastor has things of greater importance on the schedule.  Tell us what you want it to do and sound like, and we're on it...

[Stephen Swaffer]

I had forgotten the whole path to QSC.  At one point Bose was a serious consideration-I had a hand in redirecting that.  What I find interesting is that we started with an EV array-the horns "looked" like they wouldn't sound musical (that array was probably the best we've ever had) and the thought was the QSC powered speakers would have a flat response and more low end and sound more musical.  I had (out of necessity) EQ'd the other speakers and tweaked to a preference that give a little preference to spoken word-given that the stated most important part of our service is the message.  Interestingly, about 3 weeks ago I was asked to make music vocals just a little "crisper" so they would be easier to understand.  Our pastor had spent a fair amount of time traveling to various summer camps and churches this summer-and he told me that he found that the sound systems he preferred were the ones that had a clearer sound.

I certainly agree that "show me the vision" and let me execute is the most efficient way.  Clergy are just as human as the rest of us-sometimes it pays to let them make mistakes without getting bent out of shape.

[Scott Carneval]

I like the AHM platform as it should allow individual control in each room without physical controls-as much about keeping them from being messed with as cost. 

How do you intend to provide control if not using physical controls? I assume you plan to use the Custom Control app on a phone or tablet? It can certainly work, but with 15-20 different rooms you will need to create a separate login (username and password) for each room. This can be really cumbersome if the end user has to log in just to make a minor volume change. I would probably look at the IP-1 for each room. https://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/ip1/

[Brian Jojade]

Unless you keep things STUPIDLY simple, you're going to have a tech support nightmare on your hands.

The requirement of having paging ability puts this into a completely different class of system.

While you can use 2 inputs on the speakers, one for the in-room stuff and 1 for the paging, if there's a control on the speaker, someone WILL end up dicking with it.

If you can run speaker cables back from each room to a central location, now you have unlimited flexibility to re-patch and move stuff around, or do upgrades when needed.  Failed amps will all be in ONE place instead of having to deal with a failed powered speaker at some point.

[Tim McCulloch]

Unless you keep things STUPIDLY simple, you're going to have a tech support nightmare on your hands.

The requirement of having paging ability puts this into a completely different class of system.

While you can use 2 inputs on the speakers, one for the in-room stuff and 1 for the paging, if there's a control on the speaker, someone WILL end up dicking with it.

If you can run speaker cables back from each room to a central location, now you have unlimited flexibility to re-patch and move stuff around, or do upgrades when needed.  Failed amps will all be in ONE place instead of having to deal with a failed powered speaker at some point.

Sounds kind of like "dressing room" loudspeakers.  Either a mixed feed of PGM and page, or a separate feed and amplifier, with relays at each dressing room that activate with paging; even if the "talent" turns down the PGM, the pages come thru at the full, pre-set levels.

[ProSoundWeb Community]