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Author Topic: Console Upgrate Time  (Read 3924 times)

brian maddox

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Re: Console Upgrate Time
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2022, 11:28:07 PM »

I believe by a strict definition this isn't quite right: while a Yamaha stage box's Dante audio and headamp control do both a share the same network connection they are actually entirely separate data streams from each other (and Audinate has historically gone to some lengths to point out that Dante audio is just audio). Yamaha equipment does a good job ensuring that control data and audio data flow to and from the correct headamps, but that's a really Yamaha thing and not a Dante thing.

I do wish there was some kind of generic network protocol for headamp control, though.

-Russ

yeah, console manufacturers have a VERY strong financial incentive to NOT have a generic headlamp control protocol though. Which is frustrating, because it really really isn't rocket surgery...
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Andrien (No Last Name)

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Re: Console Upgrate Time
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2022, 11:54:38 AM »

I believe by a strict definition this isn't quite right: while a Yamaha stage box's Dante audio and headamp control do both a share the same network connection they are actually entirely separate data streams from each other (and Audinate has historically gone to some lengths to point out that Dante audio is just audio). Yamaha equipment does a good job ensuring that control data and audio data flow to and from the correct headamps, but that's a really Yamaha thing and not a Dante thing.

I do wish there was some kind of generic network protocol for headamp control, though.

-Russ
True it is on separate protocol, if only there was a standard for that. IIRC there is but almost no one support it.

yeah, console manufacturers have a VERY strong financial incentive to NOT have a generic headlamp control protocol though. Which is frustrating, because it really really isn't rocket surgery...

It is just bits and error correction, it doesn't consume much bandwidth either. Funny is that some console manufacturer start releasing software to control their stagebox over PC/Mac, if only 1 standardized protocol exist and you could do cross patch between Dante and some Preamp controller that control almost every stagebox. You could have multiple branded IO on a single recording session, you could mix and match manufacture's preamp colour easily and so much more. Upgrade path is also easier as you could move to another brand while using old system.
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brian maddox

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Re: Console Upgrate Time
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2022, 03:19:52 PM »

...
 You could have multiple branded IO on a single recording session, you could mix and match manufacture's preamp colour easily and so much more. Upgrade path is also easier as you could move to another brand while using old system.

...

And that's why a standard protocol hasn't been adapted. What company wants to spend time and energy making it EASIER for you to switch to their competitors product?
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Console Upgrate Time
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2022, 03:25:27 PM »

It's just bidness....

JR

PS: I don't see many headlamps on consoles.
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Daniel Levi

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Re: Console Upgrate Time
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2022, 06:03:46 PM »

PS: I don't see many headlamps on consoles.

The only bit of audio gear I've seen with headlights was Jarre's custom Elka x705 organ used for the China concerts.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Console Upgrate Time
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2022, 07:34:12 PM »

And that's why a standard protocol hasn't been adapted. What company wants to spend time and energy making it EASIER for you to switch to their competitors product?

This, plus I've always ASSumed that stageboxes have higher margins than consoles (with all those fiddly moving parts) and that being able to mix-and-match would start a race to the bottom that would hurt earnings even more than revenue. Frankly I'm a bit surprised that Yamaha decided to support controlling Focusrite preamps from their consoles (although I suppose that given how much Rednet interfaces cost they aren't going to be undercutting the Rio line-up any time soon).

That all said, now that DiGiCo and A&H have created their own Dante stagebox ecosystems I do wonder how long it will be before someone figures out a way to unofficially translate between the various control protocols.

-Russ
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Console Upgrate Time
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2022, 07:45:41 PM »

This, plus I've always ASSumed that stageboxes have higher margins than consoles (with all those fiddly moving parts) and that being able to mix-and-match would start a race to the bottom that would hurt earnings even more than revenue. Frankly I'm a bit surprised that Yamaha decided to support controlling Focusrite preamps from their consoles (although I suppose that given how much Rednet interfaces cost they aren't going to be undercutting the Rio line-up any time soon).

That all said, now that DiGiCo and A&H have created their own Dante stagebox ecosystems I do wonder how long it will be before someone figures out a way to unofficially translate between the various control protocols.

-Russ

There is nothing secret about Yamaha's preamp protocol.  I made a Q-sys plugin years ago to control a rio from that DSP and it was very easy...even without documentation.  An hour with Wireshark and I had all I needed.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2022, 07:47:57 PM by David Sturzenbecher »
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Zach Slama

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Re: Console Upgrate Time
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2022, 05:14:27 PM »

Corporate type stuff is my bread and butter.  Like 6 inputs and 12 outs.  Feeds to press, broadcast and livestreams.  The SQ has been handling these jobs, but clients are 'used' to seeing the QL/CL or SD11's on site.  I don't have to meet riders, luckily I'm established with the client that they accept whatever gear I spec for their jobs.  I'm not sure who else is using Dlive. 
There's obvious availability issues, which I passed on a CL1 because I knew I'd never find Rio.  (side note, it's also why I went with Pliant instead of Freespeak)  It seems there's almost everything available in the Dlive, except for Dante cards. 

I've talked with some Digico Quantam users and they will chew your ear off for an hour.   They absolutely love them.  What's kept me away from Digico, and makes the Dlive line so attractive to me, is the speed of the workflow.  Not having a ton of experience on Digico's,
but just going off what experienced users have told me.   
I have enough work (probably, ha ha!) to justify the expense, and the client will pay more for a better desk.

Also of note, cross rental is not really an option, as I'm in the middle of Iowa.   

Really, speed is the key.  Some of these jobs I'm site lead and LD, as well as A1.  I'm familiar with the A&H type firmware.  I'm not against going with a different desk, but I don't see anything else out there.  Personally, I'd like the c3500, but clients
are accustomed to seeing a 'small format desk'.



That help out with what my needs are?  Things might be ramped up as I got a call today about a potential 2 month run, starting "soon".   Thanks for the votes of confidence that A&H shouldn't be replacing Dlive soon.
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Re: Console Upgrate Time
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2022, 05:14:27 PM »


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