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Corporate type stuff is my bread and butter.  Like 6 inputs and 12 outs.  Feeds to press, broadcast and livestreams.  The SQ has been handling these jobs, but clients are 'used' to seeing the QL/CL or SD11's on site.  I don't have to meet riders, luckily I'm established with the client that they accept whatever gear I spec for their jobs.  I'm not sure who else is using Dlive. 
There's obvious availability issues, which I passed on a CL1 because I knew I'd never find Rio.  (side note, it's also why I went with Pliant instead of Freespeak)  It seems there's almost everything available in the Dlive, except for Dante cards. 

If corporate gigs are your main thing, I would go to Yamaha QL-series. According to your demands QL1 would be my choice. It is Dante native (easy to send and return audio from video booth), it has Dugan in-build, it is reliable and easy to config. And it has 16/8 analog i/o added with 1 AES out as native on board.

I agree that for band work it would not be my first choice, like any Yamaha would not be, because I (and I emphazise word "I") don't like the sound on those with instrument and vocals. But for corporate (mainly pure speech) Yamaha's are perfect!

Saying all that, I have to admit that I'm in a happy plsce with possibility to do all my corporate gigs with Yamaha (QL, CL and RIVAGE) and all my band shows (outside of possible cover band in corporate gig) with Avid S6L...

So for your needs, I would go to Yamaha QL-series... With the side mark, that I don't know if you can have any at the moment

Bt,
-Minka-

[Jeff Lelko]

... I just sold a C1500 and replaced it with a 3500 because the 3500 is easier to use.  Sure you can do everything on the 1500; if you are doing the same show all the time or relatively simple shows then fine, but other than the transport issues I would go with a 3500.

As a fellow dLive owner/user I echo this.  I find myself either running the rig "headless" such as with a MacBook Pro and an IP8 or with a larger surface - very rarely anything in between.  As with most things digital though - there are many "right" ways to do the same thing so to each their own on what fits their workflow the best.

To Steve C. and your original question - the advantage I like with the dLive ecosystem is the tremendous flexibility and modular construction of the platform.  The majority of my sound jobs are corporate - I really don't want to haul in an S5000 or similarly-sized desk to only mix 3 microphones and some fill music in a banquet hall.  On the other hand, I still want the extensive toolbox and routing capabilities that dLive includes to help me do my job so running off an IP8 here (or C1500 if you prefer) is more than acceptable.  The same surface setup is really a pain to mix a band on!  That's where your C3500 or S5000 needs to be used. 

To put things in other words, a properly constructed dLive system can do the job of multiple console form-factors in one.  If you're a tribute band that's always running the same setup each night you likely won't be able to leverage the full horsepower of dLive and would probably be better off with the SQ series, Avantis, an M32, etc.  dLive really shines when system setups change drastically from job to job and I need the ability to route complex networks of I/O on the fly without compromising on quality or reliability.  Hope all that helps!

[Brian Jojade]

What's everyone's thoughts?  Anyone have a good crystal ball on the next generation of desks?

I've spoken to a few people in the industry and they all say the same thing. Everyone has put the brakes on releasing new stuff due to supply constraints.  New processors and chips simply aren't available so they are either not releasing new designs, or releasing new designs that use currently available chipsets.

While it's not a true crystal ball, what that's telling me is that if you look at the 'normal' lifecycle of products, you can probably safely add a year or 2 to this round of updates until the next ones come along.

[Steve Cook]

As a fellow dLive owner/user I echo this.  I find myself either running the rig "headless" such as with a MacBook Pro and an IP8 or with a larger surface - very rarely anything in between.  As with most things digital though - there are many "right" ways to do the same thing so to each their own on what fits their workflow the best.

To Steve C. and your original question - the advantage I like with the dLive ecosystem is the tremendous flexibility and modular construction of the platform.  The majority of my sound jobs are corporate - I really don't want to haul in an S5000 or similarly-sized desk to only mix 3 microphones and some fill music in a banquet hall.  On the other hand, I still want the extensive toolbox and routing capabilities that dLive includes to help me do my job so running off an IP8 here (or C1500 if you prefer) is more than acceptable.  The same surface setup is really a pain to mix a band on!  That's where your C3500 or S5000 needs to be used. 

To put things in other words, a properly constructed dLive system can do the job of multiple console form-factors in one.  If you're a tribute band that's always running the same setup each night you likely won't be able to leverage the full horsepower of dLive and would probably be better off with the SQ series, Avantis, an M32, etc.  dLive really shines when system setups change drastically from job to job and I need the ability to route complex networks of I/O on the fly without compromising on quality or reliability.  Hope all that helps!

Jeff, I used your awesome advice to 'build' my system.  I decided to roll with DM0 and 3 DX168's, plus an IP8.  I was amazed that I found a DM0.  It was between a cdm48 or the DM0, and I chose for a smaller form, S series capability, expanded card slots, and most important, dual power supplies.  Still haven't grabbed a surface, there are a couple c1500's available.  I passed on a used c3500, I hope I don't regret that. 
,
I got pretty lucky, after I ordered the gear, the phone rang with 4 jobs that I can utilize the rig.  Used it this morning, handled the job well.   Dabbling with the power of DNY8, but didn't get too much tweeking because it was like 10 minute speeches from 8 different people. 

Thanks a ton, I'm happy with my decision and would not have gone this route had I not received such great advice from the Forum. 

[Andrien (No Last Name)]

If corporate gigs are your main thing, I would go to Yamaha QL-series. According to your demands QL1 would be my choice. It is Dante native (easy to send and return audio from video booth), it has Dugan in-build, it is reliable and easy to config. And it has 16/8 analog i/o added with 1 AES out as native on board.

I agree that for band work it would not be my first choice, like any Yamaha would not be, because I (and I emphazise word "I") don't like the sound on those with instrument and vocals. But for corporate (mainly pure speech) Yamaha's are perfect!

Saying all that, I have to admit that I'm in a happy plsce with possibility to do all my corporate gigs with Yamaha (QL, CL and RIVAGE) and all my band shows (outside of possible cover band in corporate gig) with Avid S6L...

So for your needs, I would go to Yamaha QL-series... With the side mark, that I don't know if you can have any at the moment

Bt,
-Minka-

That and the probability Yamaha phasing out Dante as core network in favor to TwinLane or other Yamaha own protocol. Dante shortage seems to hurt Yamaha quite a bit as even finding Tio's is hard nowadays. Or maybe they go to software based Dante with latency limitation.

[brian maddox]

That and the probability Yamaha phasing out Dante as core network in favor to TwinLane or other Yamaha own protocol. Dante shortage seems to hurt Yamaha quite a bit as even finding Tio's is hard nowadays. Or maybe they go to software based Dante with latency limitation.

I don't know how this is gonna shake out, but I admit to being Very Very Curious.

Dante brings a lot of Milkshakes to Yamaha's Yard, but it also has brought a LOT of headaches. Yamaha Customer Support spends a LOT of time helping customers sort Dante problems and yet unlike everything else they support it's not a product they actually have end to end control over.

But...  It's a LOT of milkshakes. Interoperability with a ton of other devices is a huge selling point of the whole CL/QL series. And a surprising number of the Rivage systems in use are actually using Dante and RIO racks and not the TwinLane I/O racks...

Gonna be interesting to see where they land.

[Jason Raboin]

For what you do a Dlive C1500 and stage box would be fantastic.  You don't need it, but it sure does everything you need and does it very well with several possible configurations.  We now have 4 Avantis and they're great, but the flexibility of the Dlive would be a better fit for corporate gigs. 

[Jeff Lelko]

Jeff, I used your awesome advice to 'build' my system.  I decided to roll with DM0 and 3 DX168's, plus an IP8.  I was amazed that I found a DM0.  It was between a cdm48 or the DM0, and I chose for a smaller form, S series capability, expanded card slots, and most important, dual power supplies.  Still haven't grabbed a surface, there are a couple c1500's available.  I passed on a used c3500, I hope I don't regret that. 
,
I got pretty lucky, after I ordered the gear, the phone rang with 4 jobs that I can utilize the rig.  Used it this morning, handled the job well.   Dabbling with the power of DNY8, but didn't get too much tweeking because it was like 10 minute speeches from 8 different people. 

Thanks a ton, I'm happy with my decision and would not have gone this route had I not received such great advice from the Forum.

That's awesome Steve, I'm glad to hear that you're happy with your investment!  As a DM32 owner myself I fully agree with your thought process on the "DM" series over the "CDM" mixrack units for the reasons you mention, and as far as surfaces go the beauty is that you can always add more down the road without any degree of backpedaling.  Keep us posted and congrats on the purchase!

[Andrien (No Last Name)]

I don't know how this is gonna shake out, but I admit to being Very Very Curious.

Dante brings a lot of Milkshakes to Yamaha's Yard, but it also has brought a LOT of headaches. Yamaha Customer Support spends a LOT of time helping customers sort Dante problems and yet unlike everything else they support it's not a product they actually have end to end control over.

But...  It's a LOT of milkshakes. Interoperability with a ton of other devices is a huge selling point of the whole CL/QL series. And a surprising number of the Rivage systems in use are actually using Dante and RIO racks and not the TwinLane I/O racks...

Gonna be interesting to see where they land.

One main advantage Dante in Yamaha system is the HA control (and one main quirk of Dante too). If only HA control could be used across brand than Dante would be a very solid protocol.

[Russell Ault]

One main advantage Dante in Yamaha system is the HA control (and one main quirk of Dante too). If only HA control could be used across brand than Dante would be a very solid protocol.

I believe by a strict definition this isn't quite right: while a Yamaha stage box's Dante audio and headamp control do both a share the same network connection they are actually entirely separate data streams from each other (and Audinate has historically gone to some lengths to point out that Dante audio is just audio). Yamaha equipment does a good job ensuring that control data and audio data flow to and from the correct headamps, but that's a really Yamaha thing and not a Dante thing.

I do wish there was some kind of generic network protocol for headamp control, though.

-Russ

[ProSoundWeb Community]