ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down

Author Topic: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall  (Read 680 times)

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2022, 09:45:17 PM »

Not familiar with any tribe products, but afaik the preamp wins. A mic pre only has one gain setting no matter how many channels it drives. Individual channel strips have to use digital trim to get different levels from a single preamp.

Oh, absolutely! I've always ASSumed that this is a big part of the reason why the X/M32's preamp settings are stored separately from the channel settings. I'm just curious what happens on a Pro-series desk when you recall a snapshot while a single preamp is assigned to multiple channels (potentially with multiple different settings stored for that one preamp)?

-Russ
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7247
  • Audio Plumber
Re: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2022, 10:16:32 PM »

Oh, absolutely! I've always ASSumed that this is a big part of the reason why the X/M32's preamp settings are stored separately from the channel settings. I'm just curious what happens on a Pro-series desk when you recall a snapshot while a single preamp is assigned to multiple channels (potentially with multiple different settings stored for that one preamp)?

-Russ

How can there be multiple different setting for one preamp? A preamp only has one setting, gain. It can be assigned to multiple control channels that can have multiple different settings, but they will all have the same preamp gain. They can each have different digital trim settings
A Yamaha Rivage preamp can have a “Silk” setting, but like gain will be the same setting on any control channel it’s patched to.

Mac
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 10:19:12 PM by Mac Kerr »
Logged

Helge A Bentsen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1497
  • Oslo, Norway.
Re: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2022, 02:19:48 AM »

How does that handle situations when you have the same preamp assigned to multiple channels? Which channel "wins"?

-Russ

IME the first channel «wins».

That’s one of the neat things with the Pro series, preamp gain is stored in the channel.
So, when you move between different setups with different racks, you can repatch your inputs and keep the gain. This summer I’ve moved show files between DL251/DL231/DL351, worked pretty good.
Logged

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2022, 01:39:44 PM »

How can there be multiple different setting for one preamp? A preamp only has one setting, gain. {...}

A simple example:
  • Store a scene with one-to-one input routing and different gain settings on each channel
  • Change the routing on the console so that every channel is using input 1
  • Recall-safe input routing (or remove input routing from the recall scope of the saved scene)
  • Recall the saved scene
Which channel's gain setting will apply to the now-shared preamp? (Apparently the first one on a Pro-series desk.)

(Incidentally, and not to be pedantic, but on a lot of consoles the preamp has at least two settings including phantom power, and many systems also include the HPF in the preamp as well...)

-Russ
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7247
  • Audio Plumber
Re: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2022, 05:07:20 PM »

A simple example:
  • Store a scene with one-to-one input routing and different gain settings on each channel
  • Change the routing on the console so that every channel is using input 1
  • Recall-safe input routing (or remove input routing from the recall scope of the saved scene)
  • Recall the saved scene
Which channel's gain setting will apply to the now-shared preamp? (Apparently the first one on a Pro-series desk.)

(Incidentally, and not to be pedantic, but on a lot of consoles the preamp has at least two settings including phantom power, and many systems also include the HPF in the preamp as well...)

-Russ

If you assign one preamp to all channels then you recall a scene, but let all channels still source from that preamp the pre level stays the same. It doesn’t matter that all the other channels were once attached to different preamps with different levels, they’re attached the one preamp now. It has one level. As you pointed out, it also has one 48v phantom supply, and perhaps one HP filter. All of those attributes follow that preamp till you change them.

Mac
Logged

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2022, 10:53:13 PM »

If you assign one preamp to all channels then you recall a scene, but let all channels still source from that preamp the pre level stays the same. It doesn’t matter that all the other channels were once attached to different preamps with different levels, they’re attached the one preamp now. It has one level. {...}

Sorry, just to be clear, I understand that an input can only have a single value for "gain" (or any other attribute). My question is what happens on scene recall when two (or more) channels have different stored preamp gain values but are sharing an input (i.e. since gain can only be one value, which one does the console choose?).

Let me put this another way: you tell the console to recall the stored scene described above. In that scene, let's say that the settings for channel 1 include "input gain = +12" and the settings for channel 2 include "input gain = +16". Both channels are sharing an input, and (as you say) that input can only have one value for gain, so will the console set gain on that shared input to +12 or +16?

Helge mentioned that on a Pro-series desk the console would set the gain on that input to be channel 1's +12 and ignore the value from channel 2, and I'm curious how other consoles that store preamp gain with the channel would handle such a conflict.

-Russ
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7247
  • Audio Plumber
Re: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2022, 08:36:56 AM »

Sorry, just to be clear, I understand that an input can only have a single value for "gain" (or any other attribute). My question is what happens on scene recall when two (or more) channels have different stored preamp gain values but are sharing an input (i.e. since gain can only be one value, which one does the console choose?).

Let me put this another way: you tell the console to recall the stored scene described above. In that scene, let's say that the settings for channel 1 include "input gain = +12" and the settings for channel 2 include "input gain = +16". Both channels are sharing an input, and (as you say) that input can only have one value for gain, so will the console set gain on that shared input to +12 or +16?

Helge mentioned that on a Pro-series desk the console would set the gain on that input to be channel 1's +12 and ignore the value from channel 2, and I'm curious how other consoles that store preamp gain with the channel would handle such a conflict.

-Russ

AFAIK there is no mic pre gain stored independent of the preamp itself. Someone with more complete knowledge of how the various parts of a scene are stored can maybe straighten this out, but my expectation is that HA gain is tied to the HA and those linked values are part of a scene, or Channel preset, but only in so much as they are part of that preamp setting. The scene wouldn’t have a different value in a different scene because it wouldn’t have the HA that value refers to.

Someone with more direct knowledge of how this all gets stored feel free to straighten me out.

Mac
Logged

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1900
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2022, 03:20:31 PM »

AFAIK there is no mic pre gain stored independent of the preamp itself. Someone with more complete knowledge of how the various parts of a scene are stored can maybe straighten this out, but my expectation is that HA gain is tied to the HA and those linked values are part of a scene, or Channel preset, but only in so much as they are part of that preamp setting. The scene wouldn’t have a different value in a different scene because it wouldn’t have the HA that value refers to.
{...}

Right, which also makes sense, but if that's the case, what difference does it make if the preamp settings are stored per-channel or per-input? If the preamp's settings can't be recalled separately from the preamp routing, doesn't "channel 1 uses input 1 with gain at +12 dB" do exactly the same thing as "input 1 has a gain of +12, and channel 1 uses input 1"?

What you're describing also doesn't achieve the OP's goal of being able to set up the console's routing de jour, recall a scene de hier, and have yesterday's preamp settings apply to today's preamps (which, as Helge mentions, apparently Pro-series consoles will do happily).

-Russ
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: X32: Confusion with Head Amp Recall
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2022, 03:20:31 PM »


Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.044 seconds with 19 queries.