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[Jeff Lelko]

Greetings,

Has anyone here had a positive experience buying a used truck from the fleet of Ryder, Penske, etc.  With expanding needs I'm exploring the possibility of adding an Isuzu NPR to my inventory.  Ryder and Penske both sell used units from their own rental fleet - having driven rental trucks of all makes, models, and conditions I know this is a huge mixed bag.  Also having driven probably every type of rental truck available I really like the cab-over Isuzus - ideally with a 16ft box or similar - not a 24 or 26.

I'm not sure what the magic formula is for any of these renters to pull a truck from inventory to sell (probably when it's not profitable to rent), but that makes me a little nervous to spend $40k+ on such a big unknown.  Thus far my business model has been to own vans and rent trucks, but with demand increasing I'm all-ears on advice and lessons learned for sourcing a decent used truck!

Thanks!

[Tim McCulloch]

Greetings,

Has anyone here had a positive experience buying a used truck from the fleet of Ryder, Penske, etc.  With expanding needs I'm exploring the possibility of adding an Isuzu NPR to my inventory.  Ryder and Penske both sell used units from their own rental fleet - having driven rental trucks of all makes, models, and conditions I know this is a huge mixed bag.  Also having driven probably every type of rental truck available I really like the cab-over Isuzus - ideally with a 16ft box or similar - not a 24 or 26.

I'm not sure what the magic formula is for any of these renters to pull a truck from inventory to sell (probably when it's not profitable to rent), but that makes me a little nervous to spend $40k+ on such a big unknown.  Thus far my business model has been to own vans and rent trucks, but with demand increasing I'm all-ears on advice and lessons learned for sourcing a decent used truck!

Thanks!

My suggestion - lease the truck from Ryd-ske and negotiate a buy out at the end of the lease.  You'll know the recent maintenance history and have time to shake it down, take it to an independent truck mechanic, etc.

Most recent experience with Ryder White Truck was good; a pair of 26' bobtails with combo lift gate and ramp.  One Freightliner, the other was Navistar.  One got noticeably better fuel economy but I don't recall which.  Neither of my drivers noted any issues with the trucks.  I shagged the trucks at the gig site and both 'felt' fairly fresh and then I noted one of them had 197,000 miles... I think my local Ryder office takes good care of the units that come to them, as well as local inventory.

Past experience with Penske was they had less friendly rates and charged for days when they were closed to vehicle returns.  I don't think their trucks left the same impression on me as my recent Ryder trucks.

Trucks are an expense to be managed and an asset to be maintained.  If you own or lease a truck you'd better keep it busy; a sitting truck is an expensive convenience.  That said, having no rental trucks available when needed becomes a huge pain for all your body parts.  The delta between cost of ownership/leasing v. renting v. your peace of mind...  We rent (reservations waaaay out in advance) for shows with tight or critical schedules.  Roadside service for one of our trucks could take hours (it's happened) and it's really expensive.  Calling the rental company can get service or a replacement truck, usually.

[Steve-White]

I've owned  a former Penske truck that I purchased from an independent truck dealer.  GMC high cube with a ramp and it was a great truck.

[Mal Brown]

My experience with an ex-Budget Cube Van was fine.  2006 Ford e-350 cutaway with 16' box and ramp. About 160k when I bought it.  Sold it for what I paid for it after 7 years.  Miss it but I can work from a trailer now and I don't miss the insurance and up-keep...  not to mention having to house it ...

[Landon Lewsaw]

As a retired trucker, my advice would be to buy from a place that rents/leases to fleets as opposed to the public.  That way at least they were being operated by professionals.

[John Roberts {JR}]

I have no experience to share but I like the idea of trying for a lease-purchase, so you can get out cheaper if its a turd.

JR

[Brian Jojade]

When you put ALL of the math into it, owning vs leasing/renting ends up being fairly close to a wash.  When you rent or lease the vehicle, your expenses are known and there are going to be no surprises.  If you buy the vehicle, now you're responsible for all expenses associated that come up and are on your own if you run into problems on the way to a gig and the truck breaks down.

Renting vs leasing depends on how often you're using the truck.  If you're using it multiple times per week, every week, leasing will be cheaper.  However, if you use different size trucks sporadically, then renting becomes a better alternative.

With both Penske and Ryder, you most certainly can negotiate better rental rates depending on the frequency of the rentals.  I've used both, and have gotten extremely good service.  I lean towards Ryder because their office is a few miles closer to me, but Penske has bailed me out for last minute events more than once. (note, NEVER rely on Uhaul to actually have a truck there that you reserved....)

My most recent rental with Ryder did have a slight hiccup.  The rep that I'd been working with for the last decade or so retired, so there was a new person there.  I reserved one of the 16 foot trucks.  Went to pick it up, and they said they were out of 16's because one wasn't returned on time, but had a ginormous 24 footer that I could use for the same price.  Normally, I wouldn't have cared, but the 24 foot would have been a nightmare at the load in location I was going to be at, so they shuffled some stuff around and I left with the 16 foot truck we planned on.  The new rep put a note in my file so that if they ever run into the problem again, they'd call me ahead of time to let me know they might have to change trucks and see if the different size would be a problem.  Pretty amazing service!

I don't think I'd ever want to own a truck on my own for business purposes. I'm not a mechanic, and I don't want to deal with that. I want to put the keys in the ignition and drive.  I want to know exactly what the cost for the event is going to be so I can pass that on to the client.  Easy. Simple. Done.

[Dave Garoutte]

I bought a twice used Uhaul 17' box truck with 200k on it, that isn't perfect, but works for me.
The primary reason was I wanted to store my stage permanently in it.
I made a fair amount of bracketry to simplify my regular useage.
Renting wouldn't have worked for me.

[Tom Roche]

I bought a twice used Uhaul 17' box truck with 200k on it...

That's a lot of miles for only being used twice!   

[Dave Garoutte]

That's a lot of miles for only being used twice!   

  They must have driven to antarctica and back.

[Craig Hauber]

As a retired trucker, my advice would be to buy from a place that rents/leases to fleets as opposed to the public.  That way at least they were being operated by professionals.

And from experience I can say their help with registration, permits, DOT and all the insurance aspects was invaluable.  As well as having a pool of cdl drivers and trucks available for if yours was down for service or if you just needed additional.  And when the time came to graduate to tractor-trailers they also made that much easier.
I found when you own/lease your own large truck you tend to give it away too often and having a good business relationship with a local pro fleet trucking expert it helped set realistic pricing for some of the crazy schedules and demands clients could come up with
-and I could get back to being an audio SE and not have to worry about getting the trucking correct (because in the bureaucratic state of california they came down on you hard if something wasn't exactly perfect with all your paperwork at the chp scales after the gig at 4am)

[Scott Holtzman]

We are super happy with our Isuzu.  It came from a private firm, has a great 16 foot box, lift gate, three rows of e-track. 


The most important feature is instead of the little diesel most have, we have the edition with the Chevy 400 V8 small block.  Most parts are common and readily available.  The tilt open cab makes service a snap. 


We also have the 3 seat bench, very important if you are going to take a couple of crew with you.

[Kemper Watson]

I've owned  a former Penske truck that I purchased from an independent truck dealer.  GMC high cube with a ramp and it was a great truck.

Same thing here only its a Ford V10. Great vehicle.

[Dave Pluke]

And from experience I can say their help with registration, permits, DOT and all the insurance aspects was invaluable.

This raises an issue that should definitely be factored into the Rent-vs-Buy equation. Consider the "bookwork" expense involved in owning a commercial truck. Might be advantageous to leave that to a leasing company.

As to the original question; eons ago, we bought an old Pabst Beer Truck (2 1/2 ton, 16' box) from a distributer that was moving to side-load trucks. Can't tell you how many times the Weighmasters told us we were "a case heavy".

A Production Company I worked for bought an old Enterprise Truck (26' box, diesel, air brakes, lift gate) and that worked out pretty well for them.

Don't know how long MHC runs their trucks before offloading them, but every time we rented one, it was really solid.

Dave

[Milt Hathaway]

We are super happy with our Isuzu.  It came from a private firm, has a great 16 foot box, lift gate, three rows of e-track. 


The most important feature is instead of the little diesel most have, we have the edition with the Chevy 400 V8 small block.  Most parts are common and readily available.  The tilt open cab makes service a snap. 


We also have the 3 seat bench, very important if you are going to take a couple of crew with you.

Hey, same truck here (minus a row of e-track)! NPR-HD (aka GMC w3500) here. Only problem I have with it is finding someone who wants to work on a non-diesel engine in a truck that size. No one with a service bay large enough and with proper tools wanted to touch it. Had to replace the water pump on it myself last summer, but it turned out to be a very simple job. Being able to sit on the tire while doing sure helped.

I hope to find someone in the near future who is willing to swap a new engine and trans into it. We'll see I guess.

I'm sure gonna miss this truck one day.

[Jeff Lelko]

Thanks for all the input everyone - as always the brain trust here doesn't disappoint! 

My suggestion - lease the truck from Ryd-ske and negotiate a buy out at the end of the lease.  You'll know the recent maintenance history and have time to shake it down, take it to an independent truck mechanic, etc.

...

Calling the rental company can get service or a replacement truck, usually.

The lease option is one that I hadn't considered, so I appreciate you bringing that up.  Historically I'd either buy or rent.  I'll have to look into the bookwork as mentioned for how a lease would need to be handled from the business perspective along with what restrictions I'd have - mileage or otherwise.  I build my vans out with quite a few custom modifications fit for the job and would want the same ability for the box truck.

And yes, in fact just last month I spent the night in the Budget Truck Motel.  I blew a tire going down the turnpike at 2 in the morning.  Thankfully I was only a few miles from a service plaza so was able to make it there to stop there for the night, but Budget couldn't get a tech out until 8 or 9 that morning to change the tire.  I think regardless of who owns the truck it can be spotty with roadside assistance but it's nice to at least have a number to call.

As a retired trucker, my advice would be to buy from a place that rents/leases to fleets as opposed to the public.  That way at least they were being operated by professionals.

That's a good suggestion as well.  Fleets are out of my knowledge base, so can you suggest a few to keep my eye on?

When you put ALL of the math into it, owning vs leasing/renting ends up being fairly close to a wash.  When you rent or lease the vehicle, your expenses are known and there are going to be no surprises.  If you buy the vehicle, now you're responsible for all expenses associated that come up and are on your own if you run into problems on the way to a gig and the truck breaks down.

...

I don't think I'd ever want to own a truck on my own for business purposes. I'm not a mechanic, and I don't want to deal with that. I want to put the keys in the ignition and drive.  I want to know exactly what the cost for the event is going to be so I can pass that on to the client.  Easy. Simple. Done.

I don't disagree, hence the "own vans and rent trucks" business model has worked well for me over the past 14-15 years.  With a certain van of mine getting up there in life I'm weighing out the arguments to just replace it with a truck versus another van.  I'm to the point where a truck would see enough regular use to justify ownership, not to mention the ability to build-out for my specific line of work to make jobs much easier along the lines of what Dave mentions with his stage.

I like the philosophy of just grabbing the truck and going, but between trucks not being available, trucks being delivered late, trucks being barely functional (like being able to see the road through a sizable hole in the floor) I know that turnkey rentals aren't always the case.  Owning is certainly more expensive then renting especially short-term but it's also nice to know exactly which truck I'll have and that it'll be in good condition to run.

We are super happy with our Isuzu.  It came from a private firm, has a great 16 foot box, lift gate, three rows of e-track. 

...

We also have the 3 seat bench, very important if you are going to take a couple of crew with you.

That's great Scott!  All things being equal I'd been siding with a diesel model but I'm not hard-over either way.  I'd love to find something in the 100,000 to 120,000 mile range available for a decent price.  Ballpark I'd be putting 10-15k miles on it a year so that'd give me plenty of life for the investment.

And yes, bench seating is a must!  Only being able to carry 1 assistant in a van gets difficult sometimes, especially when parking is very limited at the job site.

Don't know how long MHC runs their trucks before offloading them, but every time we rented one, it was really solid.

Thanks Dave, I'll definitely check them out.

Again, thanks to everyone for the advice and input on this!

[ProSoundWeb Community]