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[Mal Brown]

I'm primarily using Soundcraft UI-24 mixers.  I aim at -24 db for channel gains.  Am I leaving too much on the table ?  Where do you aim ?

[Mark Scrivener]

I'm primarily using Soundcraft UI-24 mixers.  I aim at -24 db for channel gains.  Am I leaving too much on the table ?  Where do you aim ?

be it digital boards or recording with a DAW, I aim for -18db FS. This gives similar headroom to what we had on old analog consoles...It also happens to be where the meters go from green to yellow on a lot of digital systems.

[Dave Pluke]

I'm primarily using Soundcraft UI-24 mixers.  I aim at -24 db for channel gains.  Am I leaving too much on the table ?  Where do you aim ?

If you do recording or send outputs to streaming, that won't be enough signal.

Dave

[Corey Scogin]

If you do recording or send outputs to streaming, that won't be enough signal.

Most digital consoles should have enough makeup gain ability in channel and bus processing to cover that additional 6dB on top of whatever is needed to get to a -16 LUFS feed for streaming. But I agree, -18 for channels is more typical and will require a bit less downstream makeup.

[Luke Geis]

-18dbfs is the most popular analog equivalent to a 0db unity reference signal. I generally just shoot for the point where the meter goes from green to yellow. Whatever that is in dbfs works well enough for live sound and recording.

[John A Chiara]

Most digital consoles should have enough makeup gain ability in channel and bus processing to cover that additional 6dB on top of whatever is needed to get to a -16 LUFS feed for streaming. But I agree, -18 for channels is more typical and will require a bit less downstream makeup.

Most frequent problem I see with inexperienced mixers…running input gains too low. I don’t want ‘make up gain’ to have to give me usable outputs…and inputs to effect processors. I even slam preamps on snare usually.

[Scott Bolt]

I set my gain at just below, or just tickling the first yellow LED (on an X32 that has a 7 seg meter.  If you only have 3 .... stay in the green ).

I still have to watch them ..... especially guitar and drums.  Never get an honest sound check from those guys

[Brian Jojade]

dBFS stands for db relative to full scale.  However, there is no official standard that says what full scale actually is.

In the case of the UI-24, they list the max output at 20.5dbu.  The X32 series lists the max output at 21dbu. Neither seem to have documentation as to what the meter calibration is to get to those levels, but they seem close to the -18dBfs to 0dBu level referenced earlier in the thread. Other common digital mixers seem to have picked that as the standard as well.  Just be careful when you start mixing in other components because their scales may be different.

Now, if you're mixing at -18dBfs throughout, that would mean your output from the mixer is going to be below 0dBu.  Now, if you were used to mixing at a higher level on your analog equipment, it may seem as though your digital mixer doesn't have the same amount of power available. 

This usually isn't much of an issue since the S/n ratio of most digital mixers is far greater than analog counterparts, so if you need to make up gain later in the signal chain, you can do so without much penalty.  The biggest thing is that with Analog mixers, a clip here and there wasn't the end of the world.  Most of the signal chain could typically handle that fairly gracefully to a point.  Digital is not so forgiving.  When you clip, it can be nasty, so staying within the safe zone is oh so much more important.

Generally speaking, the color of the LEDs is a good indicator.  Green = safe. Yellow = be cautious.  Red = you're getting close to going over the edge, so back off.  Green with some yellow usually means the mixer is in its happy place.

[Tim McCulloch]

dBFS stands for db relative to full scale.  However, there is no official standard that says what full scale actually is.

In the case of the UI-24, they list the max output at 20.5dbu.  The X32 series lists the max output at 21dbu. Neither seem to have documentation as to what the meter calibration is to get to those levels, but they seem close to the -18dBfs to 0dBu level referenced earlier in the thread. Other common digital mixers seem to have picked that as the standard as well.  Just be careful when you start mixing in other components because their scales may be different.

Now, if you're mixing at -18dBfs throughout, that would mean your output from the mixer is going to be below 0dBu.  Now, if you were used to mixing at a higher level on your analog equipment, it may seem as though your digital mixer doesn't have the same amount of power available. 

This usually isn't much of an issue since the S/n ratio of most digital mixers is far greater than analog counterparts, so if you need to make up gain later in the signal chain, you can do so without much penalty.  The biggest thing is that with Analog mixers, a clip here and there wasn't the end of the world.  Most of the signal chain could typically handle that fairly gracefully to a point.  Digital is not so forgiving.  When you clip, it can be nasty, so staying within the safe zone is oh so much more important.

Generally speaking, the color of the LEDs is a good indicator.  Green = safe. Yellow = be cautious.  Red = you're getting close to going over the edge, so back off.  Green with some yellow usually means the mixer is in its happy place.

Most professional mixers also have a maximum output voltage listed in their specification.  With digital mixers the question is "does that voltage equate with 0DBFS?"  If the voltage is higher, you're looking at headroom in the analog realm.

I find too many sound systems have high input gain; operating the mixer to optimize gain structure will invariably present a very hot signal to the system.  Unlike analog mixers there is little/no sonic penalty in live use to reducing levels upstream of the mixer output section (although some folks will go on and on about 'throwing bits away'...).

That said, I've found that keeping "average" input levels around -18 DBFS and letting peaks just happen (happen to get compressed or limited down the strip, but that's an artistic decision) gives me a very healthy drive level that will light up most prosumer-grade amps or powered speakers.

[Mark Scrivener]

dBFS stands for db relative to full scale.  However, there is no official standard that says what full scale actually is.

In the case of the UI-24, they list the max output at 20.5dbu.  The X32 series lists the max output at 21dbu. Neither seem to have documentation as to what the meter calibration is to get to those levels, but they seem close to the -18dBfs to 0dBu level referenced earlier in the thread. Other common digital mixers seem to have picked that as the standard as well.  Just be careful when you start mixing in other components because their scales may be different.

Now, if you're mixing at -18dBfs throughout, that would mean your output from the mixer is going to be below 0dBu.  Now, if you were used to mixing at a higher level on your analog equipment, it may seem as though your digital mixer doesn't have the same amount of power available. 

This usually isn't much of an issue since the S/n ratio of most digital mixers is far greater than analog counterparts, so if you need to make up gain later in the signal chain, you can do so without much penalty.  The biggest thing is that with Analog mixers, a clip here and there wasn't the end of the world.  Most of the signal chain could typically handle that fairly gracefully to a point.  Digital is not so forgiving.  When you clip, it can be nasty, so staying within the safe zone is oh so much more important.

Generally speaking, the color of the LEDs is a good indicator.  Green = safe. Yellow = be cautious.  Red = you're getting close to going over the edge, so back off.  Green with some yellow usually means the mixer is in its happy place.

In the digital world, dBu, dbV, dBm, etc are meaningless. These all refer to signal relative to a reference voltage and there is no "voltage" per se inside a digital console, the signal is represented as a numerical value, and when the value is all 1's (in binary) that is 0dbFS. So 0dBFS is the max possible signal on ANY digital mixer, and there is zero headroom beyond that. So how much headroom do you want? 18db? then aim for -18dbFS. Worried the drummer/singer/etc was holding back and is going to peg it? Perhaps -20 or even -24dbFS is a safer bet. Confident in your source and it isn't supper dynamic? -12dbFS might be ok.

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