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[Dave Pluke]

 >"Behringer does not officially endorse the use of cat-6, only Cat-5 is the official tested and approved spec"< means Cat-6 is ok too? Seems Behringer knows what they want.

I guess those concerned about adhering to the letter of the law should buy the Klark Teknik / Behringer 50M snake and be done with it.

Dave

[Tim McCulloch]

I read that with emphasis on SHIELDED (only).  CAT-6 meets and exceeds CAT-5e specs, so SHIELDED CAT-6 should not pose a problem.

Dave

What AES-50 specification does CAT6 exceed over CAT5e?

[Kevin Maxwell]

I am using a WING with 1 or 2 Midas DL32 Stage boxes. I used 150’ of Cat6a ruggedized shielded with stranded conductors for a series of outdoor concerts last summer. It has worked just fine for me. The cable is Eurocable I got it thru a distributor that I have been dealing with for years, Redco Audio. It feels very flexible and rugged. This Cat6a cable has 2 rubber jackets a thicker one and then a thinner one close to the wires. This cable is so thick that I had to trim the cable clamp / strain relief on the Ethercon connector so it would work.

It has braided shield and each pair is foil shielded. The pairs aren’t twisted as tight as some Cat5e shielded cable I have and that surprised me. In each pair of this Cat6a cable the second wire the white/color are all just white. The only way that you know it is white/orange is it is twisted with the orange and in the same foil shield as the orange wire. The RJ45 8P8C connectors I got are specifically for stranded/solid conductors and are the EZ version. I was a bit disappointed in the EZ version, probably because I have terminated so many of the standard and shielded RJ45 that it seems harder to use the EZ version. The stranded wire doesn’t help much in this regard because it is so much more flexible then the solid wire it flops around too much. One of the supposed advantages of the EZ pass thru version is you can see that you have them in the right order by color. But if half of the wires are just white you lose part of that benefit. I used some colored markers and put the appropriate color strip on the white wire. But by the time I had them threaded thru the RJ45 the marker had rubbed off of the white wires.     

I cut off the tab on the RJ45 connectors or else the tab is likely to get stuck in the chassis connector. The RJ45 connectors are the type with the external ground clamp. So I gathered the braided shield together under that clamp and clamped it, then I folded that up to the RJ45 housing and I soldered it there. I have always soldered the drain wire (or the ground wire) to the RJ45 connectors when I terminate this kind of cabling.

The cable tester I used is one that I borrowed from one of the sound companies that I do a lot of work with. It is a Siemon STM-8. It has shown me wiring errors on cables that other people have made and that passed a test on a different cable tester. I have a couple of Neutrik EtherCon couplers so I can plug that into the tester with an RJ45 jumper.

[Dan Mortensen]

What AES-50 specification does CAT6 exceed over CAT5e?

Hi Tim,

First, CAT6 and CAT6a are apparently very different beasts, and a true CAT6 system has a cable length limit of something stupid like 40m or worse. So 6a is the way to go.

Second, the AES50 spec that CAT6a exceeds is the unwritten but very real one where the cable pairs can't move in relation to each other to the point where there is electrical interference between them due to induction such that the sync is disrupted. Although there are CAT5e cables that are built with protections from that situation, most are built with the pairs loose together inside an overall jacket.

CAT6a, on the other hand, usually if not always has some kind of longitudinal spacer in it to keep the pairs apart enough to allow it achieve higher speed throughput than CAT5e, among other things that also help achieve that result. The electrons which are moving through the wires are not only in the copper but in the insulation and the air around the insulation and the flows can and will interfere with each other.

Or so I'm told by people I trust.

OTOH, while I trust the company to build the mixers and stage boxes, I don't trust them to design the interfaces perfectly, given how many problems we've had with them due to ESD and the issues with pulling/squeezing causing sync loss due to pair interaction, as well as Midas' insistence that unshielded cable is fine with their Pro series despite reports of a lesser version of the problems we've had with the X series. Same with Behringer apparently insisting that CAT5e is the only cable which will reliably work with their consoles. Whoever is writing that stuff for Behringer is regurgitating something that was maybe good info 10 years ago when the cost/benefit ratio (why pay 4x or whatever more to get not much electrical benefit?) was vastly different than it is now, and was also before the induction thing was found out.

All of us will do as we wish, but saying CAT5e is the only cable that will work ignores much user experience, simple logic, and the published AES50 spec, and IMO is thus misinformation.

[Douglas R. Allen]

All of us will do as we wish, but saying CAT5e is the only cable that will work ignores much user experience, simple logic, and the published AES50 spec, and IMO is thus misinformation.

   It is not about what cable "will work" it is about what cable Midas/Behringer endorses/spec's to be used. At this time Midas/Behringer endorses STP Cat5e with Bonded Ethercon connectors. If a person is buying a new cable to use with a new board/stage box there is no reason to not use what they spec.

Douglas R. Allen

[Erik Jerde]

I'll say again, possibly in different words: it does not seem plausible that cable that is designed to pass faster signal better and more reliably than lower category cable can somehow have a negative effect on lower speed signals.

It is plausible when you’re misunderstanding what’s happening.  AES50 is not Ethernet.  What is true for Ethernet is not necessarily true for AES50.  The higher twist rate in cat6+ can lead to more skew between the different pairs.  Eventually it’s not possible for the electronics to keep up and things go sideways.  Ethernet doesn’t have this problem because it works differently.  Due to mfgr variances different cables will have different results.

Cat6+ is not faster.  It conforms to specifications that allow for the use of faster Ethernet protocols.

[Brian Jojade]

Wireless mic manufacturers specify 50 ohm coax cable to be used with their antenna systems.  I've used RG6 75 ohm cable successfully. It's a thicker, more robust cable with a higher bandwitdth.

In many scenarios, it works just absolutely fine. Yes, I'm aware that it's outside of 'spec' but I've tested it in my scenarios and as such find it acceptable for use.

This is the same here.  If the cable you have selected and tested is working in your scenario, you're probably going to be just fine.

If you want to live within the 'official' specs, use the actual specified cable.

The fact that Behringer specifically has a post saying they don't officially support Cat6 cable on their site says something. There must be differences.  I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that they have more testing facilities available and more spec measurements that help them come to the conclusion of what's appropriate.

[John L Nobile]

   Only food for thought. I too am hearing 80 meters max length. At least on the X32. Still hearing 100 meters for Midas although not sure why.

  Douglas R. Allen

I think that #3 in the first article is important. "Make sure all units are either on the same power circuit"... etc

I wonder if people that are having issues are using different circuits for the board and stage box. Tough to run a distro in a small club.

[Helge A Bentsen]

I think that #3 in the first article is important. "Make sure all units are either on the same power circuit"... etc

I wonder if people that are having issues are using different circuits for the board and stage box. Tough to run a distro in a small club.

IME with Pro series, this (along with the correct cat-cable) is a issue.
I've got a Pro2 and a Pro6, both have looms with cat+power so the desk is running off the same circuit as the stage box, no issues.
This is the same approach used by the biggest rental house (also the Midas distributor) here.
I've tried a few times running Pro series with different cat-cables, installed house cables, power from different circuits etc., there have been issues.
Running cat+power from stage has always removed them.

With my M32/DL32 OTOH I've done a lot of things "wrong", cable, power from anywhere etc. It's worked every time, but it tends to be used on shows that are not that "important" (meaning, I have time to fix a screw-up). Not going to recommend this approach with the M-series, but it's in line with what others have reported.

[Brian Jojade]

With my M32/DL32 OTOH I've done a lot of things "wrong", cable, power from anywhere etc. It's worked every time, but it tends to be used on shows that are not that "important" (meaning, I have time to fix a screw-up). Not going to recommend this approach with the M-series, but it's in line with what others have reported.

Bingo.  Knowing the 'right' way to do it and bending the rules with the expectation that you may have to emergency troubleshoot is acceptable at certain events but not others. If you're going out on tour and have tight load in and load out schedules, you want to stay on spec with no deviation.

[ProSoundWeb Community]