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Author Topic: Setup suggestion  (Read 887 times)

Matteo Calamarino

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Setup suggestion
« on: April 25, 2022, 09:31:24 AM »

Hi,

I'm a newbie dj and I'm trying to buy my own setup, but I'm not very expert to understand what's best for me.
My use will be parties and renting (I don't really know how many people I can handle with my budget.. 100?), hopefully to find some clients in order to start getting those money back  :P

However, my budget is around 800 euros, and my idea was:
2 x Behringer B112D
1 x Behringer VQ1800D

I got in a lot of doubts, though:

1) Is it better the B112D or the B212D? On the internet it seems that they say the B112D is a better option
2) I found an alternative for the B112D: the Behringer DR112DSP - on the internet I cannot find people comparing the two speakers and I don't know how to compare them by the specs (let's say that I would prefer a louder speaker, if the sound quality is not excessively worse.)
3) Would it be better to switch the setup to a pair of B115D and, as a sub, the Behringer B1200D? I don't know if upgrading those speakers and downgrading the sub is a good choice (and if the overall system will be apporximately the same)

Obviously if you have better options I would like to here them - but keep in mind that, staying in EU, brands as rockville and sound town are not affordable because of customs duties and shipping fees (in that case I would rather spend money in some JBLs or QSCs  ;D)

Thanks in advance.
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2022, 10:20:03 AM »

Hi,

I'm a newbie dj

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Setup suggestion
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2022, 01:10:11 PM »

This is a case where a single higher quality speaker will probably perform better than two of the cheapos.
Look at Yamaha DXR or QSC K2.2 for the best bang-for-buck (euro). 
Then when you can afford it, get another; no wasted money to upgrade your output.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Setup suggestion
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2022, 02:25:33 PM »

Why are you looking at brand new gear?

Cheap new gear is and always will be cheap.

Used older professional gear may not be as shiny, but will produce much better sound for relatively little money.

It may take a little work to find the good stuff, but it's usually around hiding in someone's basement or closet.

Buying the older used stuff is MUCH easier to resell for essentially the same money you paid for it.  If you buy brand new crap, it's tough to get even close to your money back.

Behringer speakers have never ranked well in the audio quality department.  They've improved quite a bit over the years, but I still haven't heard any that I was all that impressed with.

I agree with what Dave said in that getting ONE good system now is better than a pair of crap.

I'd also take a look at some of the column systems out there now. The Turbosound IP3000 system (made by the same company as Behringer) is quite impressive and very very compact.  One of those would do just as well as what you have picked out.  As you get more paying jobs, you can add a second one if you decide it's necessary. (for smaller jobs it won't be!)
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Matthias McCready

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Re: Setup suggestion
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2022, 05:26:21 PM »

Hi,

I'm a newbie dj and I'm trying to buy my own setup, but I'm not very expert to understand what's best for me.
My use will be parties and renting (I don't really know how many people I can handle with my budget.. 100?), hopefully to find some clients in order to start getting those money back  :P

However, my budget is around 800 euros, and my idea was:
2 x Behringer B112D
1 x Behringer VQ1800D

I got in a lot of doubts, though:

1) Is it better the B112D or the B212D? On the internet it seems that they say the B112D is a better option
2) I found an alternative for the B112D: the Behringer DR112DSP - on the internet I cannot find people comparing the two speakers and I don't know how to compare them by the specs (let's say that I would prefer a louder speaker, if the sound quality is not excessively worse.)
3) Would it be better to switch the setup to a pair of B115D and, as a sub, the Behringer B1200D? I don't know if upgrading those speakers and downgrading the sub is a good choice (and if the overall system will be apporximately the same)

Obviously if you have better options I would like to here them - but keep in mind that, staying in EU, brands as rockville and sound town are not affordable because of customs duties and shipping fees (in that case I would rather spend money in some JBLs or QSCs  ;D)

Thanks in advance.

Just a thought, try some rentals.

Speaker systems are about coverage (how big the space is) and SPL (volume), not how many bodies are filling the space. So what speakers work best depends on the room size and what volume your client wants.

Pass on the cost of the rental (plus a little extra for yourself) to your client as part of your fee.

---

If you purchase your system now it will cost a couple of thousand to get a decent system that will not work for every venue.

If you rent you can get much nicer system than what you can currently afford; I once rented a $15k system for a few hundred bucks!

Some additional positives of renting:
1) You can check out different pieces of equipment, which may help you make a better and more informed choice once you have more capital to throw at speakers. Hint hint: if you rent some Behringer speakers you will realize they suck, but now you don't own them! (ask me how I know that...).
2) You can rent exactly what you need for each gig.
3) Your cost of ownership goes down (storage and equipment repairs etc).
4) If you aren't charging enough to be able to rent gear for an event, you are not charging enough to cover the cost of ownership of your speakers either.

-----

That is what I would do if I was "new" to things now. When I was "new" I purchased and lets just say the ROI did not work out in my favor in the long run.

----

Also if you were planning on "renting" your speakers out to people to make your money back, I would not recommend that.

To the point I can rent a $4,000 speaker for $75 a day from one of my local cross rental places. So the money you make is less than you would think. Especially if you have a cheap speaker.

Also, you better have a lot of these cheap speakers, because people will abuse them, break them, leave them in the rain, drop them, blow them up, or not return them. Renting stuff out means you need a business plan, the ability to repair, spare equipment in case the client needs a swap, equipment other than your main rig, and thorough rental contract preferably written by a lawyer.
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Matteo Calamarino

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Re: Setup suggestion
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2022, 06:52:47 AM »

Thank you everyone for your suggestion!

In this days I have done a lot of researches and finally understood that my initial idea was totally wrong.
However, I don't really like to buy used things (less the money but also less the life - furthermore, I don't know how they have been treated and I don't have an expert ear to understand if the speaker has something wrong, so that would be too risky for me).
I think that rental could be a good option as well, but maybe for more specialized events where something very big is necessary - having my own set would be a lower quality, but that would still be my target audience for the moment (furthermore, I would like to have my own speakers, for me personally).

So I came to the decision that a medium entry speakers, but no pro-level) would be the best choiche - I will go for a pair of 15" very good speakers for 800 euros and in the future I will either upgrade them or buy a sub, still to decide.

My final decision however has to be taken among to models that I have found:

1) WHARFEDALE Titan AX15 Active
2) DB Opera15
(about mackies I did not get very positive feedbacks)

I think many people would tell me to go for the opera, but I'm not very certain:

1) Opera10/12/15 specs are the same (power, coil size, etc), why? I have the fear that the 15" would be of less performance than the 12" - the titan, on the other hand changes total power, coil size, and there's also a huge difference of weight (+10kg between from 12" to 15", that's what gives me more confidence about them)
2) Opera15 have smaller coils than Titan, but have also more watts rms (and peak as well) - which is better in terms of loudness? And, especially, in terms of bass punch?

I don't really know which of the two to buy... Keep in mind that I would trade a little less quality sound for a little more loudness: people, especially in parties, are not audiphiles, they want high music and strong bass, so, unless the sound quality it's not too crap, between the two models I would choose the louder and "punchier" one (if I only knew it  :( )
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Matthias McCready

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Re: Setup suggestion
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2022, 10:57:44 AM »


However, I don't really like to buy used things (less the money but also less the life - furthermore, I don't know how they have been treated and I don't have an expert ear to understand if the speaker has something wrong, so that would be too risky for me).


Matteo,

In the audio world price points are not simply about sound quality (yes it is a factor), but they often have to do with component quality and durability.

A well designed, and durable product may have a many more years left in it, than a new inexpensive product will have to start with.

---

If you don't yet have an ear for things, that is ok, this is a learning process; but that is all the more reason to trust the steering from folks who do already have the ears for this stuff.

---

When it comes to a price point most things will have a relatively similar performance, you get what you pay for. For example JBL makes some incredible sounding stuff and some horrific sounding stuff, and everywhere in-between. A $400 speaker with a JBL badge is still going to sound like a cheap/bad $400 speaker...

Please do realize that at this price point all of the specs are complete BS. Don't get hung up on the advertised SPL and wattage those aren't real life numbers. 

---

For a 12" vs a 15" my opinion would be that:
1) 15" never have great loud/deep bass (ie you will miss it if you don't have a sub)
2) 15" do not always mate well with a sub.
3) 15" two way boxes don't always sound tasty (especially in the cheaper boxes).

----
So if I were you, I would buy:
1) A single 12" top
2) As much sub as you can afford

Most powered speakers have an option for "with sub," that will act to raise the crossover to a relatively high (100hz or higher); by not focusing on the low-end, which it cannot do well, that will give it more headroom and power (read: free volume).

---

I would encourage you to do some homework/reading on how frequency, comb filtering, and coverage patterns come into play with systems (there are lots of good threads around here). Hint hint: adding more top speakers to cover the same area does not net more volume (read: wasted money), but will cause things to sound worse, and subwoofers can be placed together, which will result in an increased output (read: free volume).

---

So maybe some things to look for used (or new budget allowing).
1) JBL PRX (step down from SRX, but HUGE step up from Eon).
2) QSC K's (or whatever the equivalent in Europe is). Do they sound amazing? No, but they are ubiquitous (read: cheap used), and sound MUCH better than what you are looking at.
3) Martin CDD (probably way out of your price point, but their performance and sound is fantastic for the price).

I am sure others will have ideas on things to hunt for.

---

You could hunt for an older professional product such as a Nexo PS10 (note this would need an accompanying amp). Something like that would sound worlds better than what you are currently looking at, would go MUCH louder, and would last for many years. You never know, sometimes you can pickup some of this stuff for fairly inexpensive.

For example maybe if you make friends with a shop, ie by doing some rentals, they may have an older system that is really tiny for them that is collecting dust, that might be a huge and incredible system for you. Realize that an audio shops "big rig" could be millions of dollars worth of speakers; so what you are looking for would be a drop in the bucket for a company like that.

Shops often part with gear because it doesn't fit well in their ecosystem (it doesn't work well with their big rig) or is an oddball in their inventory or it doesn't get rented enough or... 

Bottom line: Companies often get rid of things that sound great and have life left in them; they may even be willing to give you some spare parts, or replace drivers before it goes out the door. If the item has already paid for itself and been replaced, they may be willing to let it go for a great price.

You probably have to make friends with them first though  ;)
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Setup suggestion
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2022, 01:08:20 PM »

Everything Matthias said!

For your budget, you can afford a single Yamaha DXR12 or equivalent. It will out perform with better sound quality than the pairs you're considering.
It will let you build a larger system (add a sub then another top) with good quality without having to get rid of the lower end speakers.
Also, Yamaha has a 7-year warranty.
I also suggest you try to listen to the options you're considering and compare them to our suggestions.
The lower end speakers may get as loud as they claim, but will sound awful when they do. 
We are speaking from experience.


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Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

Brian Jojade

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Re: Setup suggestion
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2022, 03:28:55 PM »

100% on Matthias.

It always amazes me how people starting out somehow come up with 'budget' numbers available for purchasing new gear. No idea where those numbers come from, but generally they aren't built out of any reality in business operations.

If you're just starting out, the rental option makes creating a budget MUCH MUCH easier. You know what it costs to rent the gear for the show, and can quickly realize that sometimes shows are too cheap to make a profit on.  If you spent money on gear, it's easy to think that making 'some' money is better than making no money.  But in the end, it's really not.

Renting out your own gear comes with great risk.  You'll find that if you do one off rentals as a nobody, you will pay much higher rates than if you establish a relationship with a rental vendor that knows the gear is going to come back clean and undamaged. You'll also realize that having ONE set of speakers isn't going to create a viable rental business.  You may get a few bucks here and there, but you've got a lot of risk of things going wrong. If you rent out a speaker and that speaker does die, do you have another in inventory that you could provide to the client?  Yeah, it shouldn't happen often, but it DOES happen.  As soon as you get the reputation of renting out gear and it fails on the event with no backup plan, that's pretty much the end of that game.

Audio rental CAN be a very lucrative business, but it requires a pretty hefty capital upfront investment to get there.
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Brian Jojade

Matthias McCready

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Re: Setup suggestion
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2022, 11:32:41 PM »

For your budget, you can afford a single Yamaha DXR12 or equivalent.

I forgot about DXR, that is a good suggestion.


Let me rephrase this for you  ;D ;D ;D


The lower end speakers may get as loud as they claim, but you will wish they didn't.

 ;D
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Setup suggestion
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2022, 11:32:41 PM »


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