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Author Topic: Small Operator System Details and Rationale  (Read 12461 times)

John Schalk

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2022, 09:34:21 AM »

I run two systems.  The ďsmallĒ system is (2) Fulcrum Acoustics FA22acís over (2) BassBoss SSP-218s.
How are you moving the SSP-218s?  Bassboss shows them stacked horizontally on carts, but that won't work for the kinds of small venues I work at.
 I'd like to know how you are transporting them to gigs.
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Nathanael Iversen

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2022, 06:21:54 PM »

How are you moving the SSP-218s?  Bassboss shows them stacked horizontally on carts, but that won't work for the kinds of small venues I work at.
 I'd like to know how you are transporting them to gigs.

I use the dolly boards that BassBoss sells. I normally roll them stacked, then lift the top one off with a helper. I suppose you could make a dolly board that works for a single sub standing vertically.

I often use the subs tipped vertically. One of the handy things is that there is a pole socket in the end, as well as one in the middle, so it helps get the tops up a little higher. 

Iíve taken them on the back of a truck bed, a 7x14í trailer, rented lift gate trucks, etc.

If you are dealing with very small venues, look at their DJ18 sub. For typical powered tops, in a band setting, itíll do quite nicely. Much smaller physically. Half the cost.

What I like about the BassBoss stuff is that it performs much better than MI gear and has the same drivers as touring grade gear.  But, the boxes have MI features like pole sockets in handy places. They are assuming speaker on a stick or ground stack vs flown tops or high stands. 
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Rory Buszka

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2023, 11:15:50 PM »

I'm smol. (Compared to the serious players on here)

'large' system (not):

Console:
Soundcraft Si Expression 1 with MADI/USB card
Soundcraft Mini Stagebox 16ch

Speakers:
2x Renkus Heinz TRAP JR/9
4x Renkus Heinz TRX121/9
4x Renkus Heinz TRC81/9HO
2x Community VBS112 with upgraded drivers (works well with a pair of TRX121 mains to fill in some low end but really not much volume)
I'm working on adding some subs and another pair of TRAP JR mains - converting to portable with factory handles in factory locations, then new paint.
Drivers in the VBS112 were not original when I bought them, and I replaced them with Denovo Audio Magnum-12, which were perfect for the boxes.
Renkus Heinz speakers are an odd choice but units that have been removed from installs can be had used for very little with some reconditioning necessary. I converted two TRX's to portable and added pole sockets to the other two which had handles already. It's worth the effort because they sound gorgeous. My high school had RH speakers in the auditorium, and they sounded great, so I have been partial to the brand.

Amps:
Crown XTi2002 x1
Crown XTi4002 x2
System processing is running on the amp DSPs.

Mics: SM58's, SM57's, a couple Sennheiser, a couple PG series wireless, Audix F6, AKG small diaphragm condenser, Samson DK707 kit, D/I boxes from Whirlwind

Cables: 30 25' XLR for mics, 4 50' XLRs, 4 50' Speakon, 2 25' speakon, 2 short speakon, and bridged amp adapters. AC plug strips, 2x 8ch snakes for 16ch physical sends in addition to 16ch from stagebox = 32 inputs

Stands: 6x tall boom stands (+spares), 2x kick/amp stands, 1x weighted base pole stand, drum clips.

Last gig this did was a 4-piece band in a banquet hall in 2019; looking for something to get me started again this year.

'smol' system:

2x Bose 402
2x Bose MB4
4x Bose 101 hot spots
Yamaha MG12
1x Behringer NU1000DSP
1x Behringer NU3000DSP
One Behringer is running the Bose 402 processor curve.

I bought the 402s and MB4s as an experiment and they are a truckload of meh, but they're small, light, and full-ish range, and they look clean. The 'smol' system did music at a party, as well as a gig in a house for a local piano entertainer.

Other:
2x Community ENT206 with 'standle'
2x Community  CPL23 with stand adapters
4x Bose B1 (may sell - were part of a 'tiny pa' concept)

My transportation is a 2-row SUV, a Ford Edge. Anything larger will be rented as necessary. I'm a shoestring operation but this is my hobby and everything is paid for. I also do sound for a newly planted porta-church that has an X32 console and a system with Apogee AE5s along with AE11 subs. The AE5s are Crown Macro-Tech powered (the original classic ones) and the subs get a bridged Powersoft Digam K10.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 03:57:15 PM by Rory Buszka »
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Mike Monte

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2023, 07:47:57 AM »



'smol' system:

2x Bose 402
2x Bose MB4
4x Bose 101 hot spots
One Behringer is running the Bose 402 processor curve.

I bought the 402s and MB4s as an experiment and they are a truckload of meh, but they're small, light, and full-ish range, and they look clean.

Bose processor curve??
Do you mean a standard 402 full range processor or 402C processor or did you develop your own setting?

I have four pairs of 402's that I use with their appropriate processors; two pairs are "corporate-clean" (my term) that I use for talking head / light background music or monitors for wedding-band use.

Joe Q Public recognize the Bose logo.  I know, I know, but public perception does carry some weight.
I only use them when I know that they will work for the specific application.
 
The two other pairs I use as monitors for club work, yes............... club work.
I've toughened-up the club 402's: added Speakon ins/outs, purchased METAL grills (from Bose), and added grill foam....  The cabs look road-worn (scratches) and the grills have held up well.
For band monitor use I use a 402C controller in bi-amp mode running the mid/hi signal to a Crown xs4300 to the cabs. 
They work really well for this application.

I have never used an MB4....but I have used 502BP subs via the 402C controller.
The 502's pair up well with the 402's.

 
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Rory Buszka

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2023, 03:44:13 PM »

Bose processor curve??
Do you mean a standard 402 full range processor or 402C processor or did you develop your own setting?

I have four pairs of 402's that I use with their appropriate processors; two pairs are "corporate-clean" (my term) that I use for talking head / light background music or monitors for wedding-band use.

Joe Q Public recognize the Bose logo.  I know, I know, but public perception does carry some weight.
I only use them when I know that they will work for the specific application.
 
The two other pairs I use as monitors for club work, yes............... club work.
I've toughened-up the club 402's: added Speakon ins/outs, purchased METAL grills (from Bose), and added grill foam....  The cabs look road-worn (scratches) and the grills have held up well.
For band monitor use I use a 402C controller in bi-amp mode running the mid/hi signal to a Crown xs4300 to the cabs. 
They work really well for this application.

I have never used an MB4....but I have used 502BP subs via the 402C controller.
The 502's pair up well with the 402's.

I developed my own setting after researching the 402 curve; I used an OmniMic measurement setup to fine-tune for flatness, then I added a bit of top end to compensate for the midrangey-ness of the 4" drivers, which are the red-cone ones used in the 402-II instead of the black-cone ones. I have the Community ENT206 columns also, and they are more 'hi-fi' and extended on top than the 402; they just need a little taming of a treble breakup peak that's in the 15-20kHz range that makes them sound too bright.

The MB4 is a curiosity. It makes enough bass for the 402 or the MA12 that it was designed to pair with, and it can thump and play low notes, but it is nowhere near the sub that the 502 is. The MB4 has a 'wooly' sound I can recognize. Subjectively it plays a little deeper than the B1, although the B1 plays surprisingly deep for its size and weight. I used B1s with ENT206s for background music and announcements as part of a technology showcase event, with the B1s hiding behind the pipe-and-drape and the ENT206s peeking through at the corners being almost invisible.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2023, 06:03:01 PM »

Bose processor curve??
Do you mean a standard 402 full range processor or 402C processor or did you develop your own setting?

I have four pairs of 402's that I use with their appropriate processors; two pairs are "corporate-clean" (my term) that I use for talking head / light background music or monitors for wedding-band use.

Joe Q Public recognize the Bose logo.  I know, I know, but public perception does carry some weight.
I only use them when I know that they will work for the specific application.
 
The two other pairs I use as monitors for club work, yes............... club work.
I've toughened-up the club 402's: added Speakon ins/outs, purchased METAL grills (from Bose), and added grill foam....  The cabs look road-worn (scratches) and the grills have held up well.
For band monitor use I use a 402C controller in bi-amp mode running the mid/hi signal to a Crown xs4300 to the cabs. 
They work really well for this application.

I have never used an MB4....but I have used 502BP subs via the 402C controller.
The 502's pair up well with the 402's.


I am not the only one who keeps some gear corporate clean, including wireless, DPA headsets, monitors (with cases that cost more than the monitors) confidence monitors both audio and video, cased up KS122's and Yamaha DZR 10's and 2 subs.


It is good for business.


I don't know much about the Bose, the 15" acoustimass looks hard to transport and the 18 is expensive.  I started with I would rather have the Turbosourd Inspire, they range from good to great. 
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2023, 07:21:52 PM »

Small operators are listing their inventory, I am not going to do it down to the mics but let me give it a shot.  I recently got diagnosed with end stage renal failure.  Dialysis is keeping me alive.  Hoping for a transplant.  I am technically not working.  I do some booking and get stage plots and pick lists together, that's about it.  Putting techs with our gear. Just enough to keep the inventory alive and cover the warehouse (1/3 of 10,000 sq. ft.)  Hopefully I will get the transplant and can go back to work.


Anyway, when this my infirmity first started I had a loan.  My warehouse mate and I share a tow motor, have the same line array, subs and amps and work well together.  He was kind enough to purchase my FBT Muse dual 10" medium format line array, flyware, stacking brackets, carts etc. along with 6 Meyer dual 18 subs with Lab Gruppen power amps and Meyer processors.  He also purchased my lifts.  This allowed me to pay off the loan and I refer the larger business to him.  Lastly I sold him my Stageright decks, braces and heads.  He had identical.  I can of course rent the stage too.


My current inventory:


Powered Speakers:
4 DRS-112

2-KW-122
4 - KW-122 in dual ATA cases for corporate/wedding
2-KW-153
Club Rig
2 - SRX-812
2 - STX-818S
Power Rack with M32C, DL32, 2 channels Shure Wireless (SLX) 2 bridged QSX PL236 for subs one PL236 for mains
I will be adding 4 channels of amplification and passive 12" coax probably yamaha to this rig
Fixed array:
6 -JBL VRX932LA - In Dual ATA Cases
4 - STX-828S (dual 18's)
Flyware and Poleware
Power rack - Bridged Yamaha P7000 for subs and speakers, 2xx Volt Distro for 110 IEC's are in rack
Powered Subs -
2 - SRX-818SP - Generally go out with the Yamaha
6 - KW181
Monitors:
8 - Alto Powered 12" Coax
8 - HPR121
2 - HPR 151
3 - DZR-10 (used for Wedding Ceremonies too)
1 - Misc. Poles and Stands
Mixers
1 - M32
2 - M32X
3 - DL32
1 - DL8
1 - M32R
1 - XR18
Lighting -
1 - ETC Congo (For Sale)
1 - Chauvet ShowXpress with 2 Universe USB interface
12 - Battery Powered Chauvet Uplights with wireless to USB interface
6 - Chauvet wireless truss warmers
2 - wired truss warmers
8 - Blizzard Hotbox
8 - High Output PAR's (in case)
6 - Blizzard Weather Systems
3 - Blizzard foot pedals for Weather system
1 - Misc. Poles and stands
4 - Small Chinese 110W movers in case
4 - 5R Charpie's
4 - Mac Aura Clones in cases
16 - Chauvet Wireless LED uplight strips
8 - Par's on a light piece of truss
20 - little pars
Pipe and Drape -
52 - 16' tall rose brand heavy velour fire tested black drape
Crossmembers and uprights for drape
Steel Bases, pins and cart
Truss -
14 pieces of 4 leg Global of varying lenghts
4 - Universal Corners
1 - Podium
6 - 4 ft. steel bases
Sand Bags -
Large Trunk full of black loaded sand bags
Video -
2 - Pro Camcorders with SDI out
2 - PTZ cameras
8 - Guestimate, SDI to HDI converters
2 - Decimators
1 - Black Magic ATEM switcher with console in case
2 - 8k Christie Projectors in case with accessories
2 - 5k Christie Projectors in case with accessories
2 - Short throw glass
4 - Med. throw glass
2- Long Throw Glass
6 - Break out rook projectors and small screens
4 - 16' Fast folds with front and rear screens and black dress kits
2 - 12' Fast Folks with front and rear screens and black dress kits
4 - Med. size Fast folks front screen, black and blue dress kits
Small Spider box, tons of edison and twist lock SOOW
cables -
Tons of XLR
Tons of IEC
Tons of BNC
A good supply of DMX/XLR data
Various XLR snakes
2 tail spit snake 32 channel with lifts
Stage snakes
Tons of K&M stands
Cases-
2 - 1/4 pack HD
1 - 1/2 pack HD
2 - 1/2 pack light
4 - cubes light
2 - 16U
2 - 12U
1 - 8U
Various small boxes for mixers, ATEM and such
1 - Heavy Theater style case
2 - 1/4 pack talls medium duty
4 - Small cases
4 - Trade show (gold bags style) cylinders for mic stands
Vehicles -
1 - Astro extended cargo with divider
Shared Vehicles with Warehouse mate -
1 - Full size Chevy with divider
1 - 12' with lift box, Isuzu gas engine cab
1 - 10' e350 with ramp gas
Staging:
8 - 4x8 Wenger 18"
4 - 4x6 Wenger 18"
Wireless -
5 - BLX individual cases shared with warehouse mate
4 - QLX-D with handhelds (SE V 7 and Shure capsules)
Mics - Tons of SM58/57 e604/e609/e902/e935 a bunch of beta, clips and more specialty mics


To me this is enough to do 3 small gigs comfortably, 1 medium and 1 decent size with the VRX and maybe some fills.  Surprises don't catch me short gear.  We can do music, weddings and corporate. 



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Brian Jojade

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2023, 11:50:16 PM »


I am not the only one who keeps some gear corporate clean, including wireless, DPA headsets, monitors (with cases that cost more than the monitors) confidence monitors both audio and video, cased up KS122's and Yamaha DZR 10's and 2 subs.


It is good for business.


If you're going to do corporate work, it's not just good for business, it's pretty much critical.  If you're going to do do bar/club work, it's pretty much impossible to use the same gear and keep it ready for corporate gigs.

If you're just starting out, your gear is new and shiny, but as it gets used, it will end up not corporate friendly.  When that happens, buy new corporate gear and save it for that, using the older gear for the non demanding gigs.  Yeah, it's challenging to leave the new shiny stuff at home, but saving it for corporate work will make you more money.

Once the corp gear starts to wear, move it down to club duty and replace it, selling out the club stuff.
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Rob Stevens

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2023, 12:35:16 PM »


I updated this year so I ill update here

X32R Mixer
S16 Stage Box

Speakers
2 Yamaha DZR12
4 Yamaha DZR15XLF
5 Turbosound IQ10B

Dis
3 Radial Pro DI
1 Radial Pro Stereo DI
2 Radial JDI
1 Radial J48
1 Radial JDX
Plus a few cheapies...

Mics
SM58's, 57s, as well as Beta versions, Sennheiser 835s, 945s, Beyerdynamic TG D71, Sen 905, Shure PGA56, Senheiser E609s,
Sennheiser ew100 g4 with 835 capsule Wireless


4 Yorkville LED4XP Lightbars

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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2023, 11:35:29 PM »

I updated this year so I ill update here

X32R Mixer
S16 Stage Box

Speakers
2 Yamaha DZR12
4 Yamaha DZR15XLF
5 Turbosound IQ10B

Dis
3 Radial Pro DI
1 Radial Pro Stereo DI
2 Radial JDI
1 Radial J48
1 Radial JDX
Plus a few cheapies...

Mics
SM58's, 57s, as well as Beta versions, Sennheiser 835s, 945s, Beyerdynamic TG D71, Sen 905, Shure PGA56, Senheiser E609s,
Sennheiser ew100 g4 with 835 capsule Wireless


4 Yorkville LED4XP Lightbars


Grab a couple of SE v2's for your kit, everyone needs a few.  They are an awesome value for $100.00.  Get the cool Billy Gibbons chrome ones for $149.00!  Seriously a really well performing microphone.



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Small Operator System Details and Rationale
¬ę Reply #49 on: September 13, 2023, 11:35:29 PM ¬Ľ


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