ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down

Author Topic: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater  (Read 1805 times)

Peter Kowalczyk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« on: March 11, 2022, 06:24:19 PM »

We're gearing up for another summer concert series at my local regional park amphitheater, and my contact at the department told me yesterday that they're prepared to act on my recommendation to install some buried / permanent wire runs out to front of house.

I was going to recommend:

Qty 4 Shielded Cat 6A terminated in EtherCON
Qty 8 110-ohm STP for DMX or analog Audio, terminated in Qty 4 each XLR(F) and XLR(M) Pairs on each end
Qty 2x 20A circuits
Qty 1 6" PVC Conduit with a pull cord for future expansion or temporary snakes.

I'm probably the most frequent technical user of this space, and this is more than enough for my needs now and in the foreseeable future.   There is one event happening for a second year where they did have a nice old-school Gamble EX56 analog setup at FOH, and I assume they pulled an analog multicore for that, but unsure the details.  I'm going to try to reach out to them.

For a sense of scale, the stage here is a concrete slab about 40' wide plus wings and 30' deep, FOH position is about 100' back on the gently raked lawn, and the lawn seating ends another 150' behind that. 

If you were coming in to work in a space like this, are there any other cable runs you'd like to see?

Thanks!

Logged

Dave Garoutte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2963
  • San Rafael, CA
Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2022, 02:34:34 AM »

Make sure you terminate all cables to a waterproof box with panel mounts.  No loose cables. well labeled.
You might consider two separate pipes, one for the permanent install and one for the optional pull.
Logged
Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

David Sturzenbecher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1910
  • So. Dak.
    • Sturz Audio
Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2022, 07:38:34 AM »

Make sure you terminate all cables to a waterproof box with panel mounts.  No loose cables. well labeled.
You might consider two separate pipes, one for the permanent install and one for the optional pull.
Two pipes would be required.  The open one should be at least 8 with no bends and each end should have draining provisions.

I second having the permanent cables terminate to a plate housed in a weatherproof box.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Logged
Audio Systems Design Engineer
Daktronics, Inc.
CTS-D, CTS-I
AES Full Member

Steve-White

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1113
  • Fort Worth
Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2022, 08:15:02 AM »

What Dave and David said.

I would run the 120V stuff in a 3-wire style and not two separate runs.  L1 + L2, single neutral. ground and run it in a metallic conduit.  Also go up a wire size to 10GA for all 4 conductors.  This is the cleanest way to run single phase AC.  Allows for future changes such as an isolation transformer and keeps everything at a single ground potential for the audio and minimizes line voltage drop.

Make another 3-wire style run dedicated to stage lighting, and a utility outlet for fan, coffee maker, phone charger, etc.  Sharing a single metallic conduit is fine for the AC line.

Control lines are fine in non-metallic.

A spare empty conduit run is something we always did on work like that or even in residential for areas that had limited access.

Do it right, do it once.  :)
Logged

Jason Raboin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 369
    • Klondike Sound
Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2022, 09:33:28 AM »

You could just increase the quantity of network runs and then use ethercon to XLR on either end as needed.  More flexibility that way.
Logged
Jason Raboin
Partner
Klondike Sound

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2465
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2022, 12:26:25 PM »

Some people coming in may still use their own snake and drive line regardless of what you install.

8 inch is a good suggestion on the open conduit, actually I would call
that the minimum.

Keep a pull rope in it and I would suggest before someone just ties
their snake to the rope to pull it through that first they tie a big rag
to the rope to do a test pull to see if the conduit has filled with water.

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2516
    • HappyMac Digital Electronics
Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2022, 04:11:33 PM »

Some people coming in may still use their own snake and drive line regardless of what you install.

8 inch is a good suggestion on the open conduit, actually I would call
that the minimum.

Keep a pull rope in it and I would suggest before someone just ties
their snake to the rope to pull it through that first they tie a big rag
to the rope to do a test pull to see if the conduit has filled with water.

100% this!  Even if the tube is properly installed to drain completely it can end up filled if rodents decode to plug it up a bit.

Recommended installation, if in a flat area would be to have the tube crown slightly with the high spot in the middle so any water would not want to flow through the pipe.

Cap the ends when not in use.  I personally like to have a long enough pull rope that I can leave it attached to each cap so there's no chance of it 'accidentally getting pulled out of the tube.  The extra length can simply be stuffed into the tube when capped.

Logged
Brian Jojade

Dave Garoutte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2963
  • San Rafael, CA
Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2022, 05:09:51 PM »


Cap the ends when not in use.  I personally like to have a long enough pull rope that I can leave it attached to each cap so there's no chance of it 'accidentally getting pulled out of the tube.  The extra length can simply be stuffed into the tube when capped.
Right, make the pull rope at least twice the length of the tube, and permanently attached to the caps.
Put a knot or ring at the center point to attach your snake.
Logged
Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

Tim Hite

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1044
    • Bad Quail
Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2022, 06:41:03 PM »

We're gearing up for another summer concert series at my local regional park amphitheater, and my contact at the department told me yesterday that they're prepared to act on my recommendation to install some buried / permanent wire runs out to front of house.

I was going to recommend:

Qty 4 Shielded Cat 6A terminated in EtherCON
Qty 8 110-ohm STP for DMX or analog Audio, terminated in Qty 4 each XLR(F) and XLR(M) Pairs on each end
Qty 2x 20A circuits
Qty 1 6" PVC Conduit with a pull cord for future expansion or temporary snakes.

I'm probably the most frequent technical user of this space, and this is more than enough for my needs now and in the foreseeable future.   There is one event happening for a second year where they did have a nice old-school Gamble EX56 analog setup at FOH, and I assume they pulled an analog multicore for that, but unsure the details.  I'm going to try to reach out to them.

For a sense of scale, the stage here is a concrete slab about 40' wide plus wings and 30' deep, FOH position is about 100' back on the gently raked lawn, and the lawn seating ends another 150' behind that. 

If you were coming in to work in a space like this, are there any other cable runs you'd like to see?

Thanks!

If I were dong it, I'd go ahead and run 50A 125/240 or 50A 3 out to the FOH position. That would give you enough for follow spots in the future, and the cable cost increase in minor. Get a spider box for FOH. You'll need a 1" rigid PVC conduit for this run and 4-5 6AWG THHN copper wire.

For the signal cable runs, I'd be looking at fusion welded SDR 41 HDPE rather than PVC. I have a distributor in Sparks, if you need. They make sweep 90's with a long radius to allow for fishing cables and you can do radius bends with the pipe, as well.

I don't know that I'd put anything in the cable run if all the venue has is outside vendors. Let providers pull their own snakes, as needed.

There s an amphitheater here in Rancho Mirage that has done something similar. Then providers came and damaged the in house cable runs. When I arrived to advance a show, I pointed it out. Everyone was pointing fingers at each other. Someone from teh city decided to get upset with me for pointing out the damage.
Logged
Bad Quail
Sound + Light
Joshua Tree, California
Authorized Dealers for all this stuff

Dave Garoutte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2963
  • San Rafael, CA
Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2022, 09:17:25 PM »

There s an amphitheater here in Rancho Mirage that has done something similar. Then providers came and damaged the in house cable runs. When I arrived to advance a show, I pointed it out. Everyone was pointing fingers at each other. Someone from teh city decided to get upset with me for pointing out the damage.
It the in-house cabling is terminated at plates on both ends, what can you mess up? It's just plugging in xlr's or ethernet.
Logged
Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: FOH Cable Runs for Outdoor Amphitheater
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2022, 09:17:25 PM »


Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.037 seconds with 21 queries.