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Author Topic: What would you do here? Speakers-placement-subs?  (Read 1133 times)

Fred Dorado

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What would you do here? Speakers-placement-subs?
« on: March 06, 2022, 07:56:43 PM »

Getting involved in sound with a church plant and need some help.

The sound is a little muddy, louder in front and we need to add some low end.

The church area is roughly 40x65. It is a corner in a strip mall. The area is a little bigger than that but roughly that is the width of the stage.

Current setup is Presonus 16.4.4 AI going to a set of QSC (K1's I think) with some JBL EON 12's on the floor so help with low end and people in the middle (I think these need to go). We are running "in Ears", electronic drums and try and avoid amps on stage, but it does happen. Music is gospel/hillsong/crowder etc.

I was thinking of like a pair of Evolve 50's to help with width of room and get that low end. One problem is speaker placement is on the edge of the stage. So I am not sure if that good since one side has hard wall and other side opens to hallway

We could also add a sub and see how it sounds without the middle speakers.

Maybe we could do one of those Bose columns on the back wall in the center of the stage.

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Brian Jojade

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Re: What would you do here? Speakers-placement-subs?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2022, 09:18:09 PM »

Do you have a budget for the project?  That will help narrow down the options available.
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Fred Dorado

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Re: What would you do here? Speakers-placement-subs?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2022, 09:48:45 PM »

No specific budget, but I was figuring around 2500-3k because I had in mind the Evolve50.
The leadership has asked me for help and its a new church plant so not totally flush with cash but will spend money if justified.

The current system was purchased from another church plant and had a full set of quality wireless mics and in ear monitor.

We were portable in a rented building until about 6 months ago so we used what we had.

Do you have a budget for the project?  That will help narrow down the options available.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: What would you do here? Speakers-placement-subs?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2022, 10:11:16 PM »

Is this a portable system, IE can't be installed?  If so, that's going to limit what is possible; you're on the right track with wide horizontal dispersion speakers plus subs. 

I'd look at RCF TTL4A, FBT CLA 406.2A, Bassboss DV12-Mk II, or maybe dB Tech IG3T or IG4T, in that order.  You're looking for wider horizontal and tighter vertical pattern; get the speakers up as high as possible and aim the loudest lobe of the pattern at the heads of the back row, or nearly so. 

Rated patterns on the above are 100x25, 100x25, 120x20, 110x90, and 110x90.  The wide vertical pattern of the last two means the front-to-rear coverage (of the HF) won't be even, so I'd focus on the first three options. 

Subwoofers - don't fall for matching brands with the tops, other than potential crossover slopes playing nice, subs may or may not be the same brand. 

For subwoofers - JTR Captivator 212 Pro or 215 Pro, Bassboss SSP118 or DJ18S are the ones I'd look at first.  Most of the cheaper ones use non-neo drivers and sound a bit 'mushy', such as the common QSC/JBL/EV/FBT/etc options. 


 
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Fred Dorado

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Re: What would you do here? Speakers-placement-subs?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2022, 11:12:16 PM »

Caleb, all great suggestions but most likely overkill for the room and group.

We can do install. This is our building (rented).

We are probably setup to seat about 80-90 and can probably add more seats up to 120-130

Besides being way more than we need, probably hard to justify the money for the overkill, other than the ability to expand with similar units.

Think more like the FBT Vertus CS 1000.

Worries that the wide patter will help in the middle but increase reflections off the walls


Is this a portable system, IE can't be installed?  If so, that's going to limit what is possible; you're on the right track with wide horizontal dispersion speakers plus subs. 

I'd look at RCF TTL4A, FBT CLA 406.2A, Bassboss DV12-Mk II, or maybe dB Tech IG3T or IG4T, in that order.  You're looking for wider horizontal and tighter vertical pattern; get the speakers up as high as possible and aim the loudest lobe of the pattern at the heads of the back row, or nearly so. 

Rated patterns on the above are 100x25, 100x25, 120x20, 110x90, and 110x90.  The wide vertical pattern of the last two means the front-to-rear coverage (of the HF) won't be even, so I'd focus on the first three options. 

Subwoofers - don't fall for matching brands with the tops, other than potential crossover slopes playing nice, subs may or may not be the same brand. 

For subwoofers - JTR Captivator 212 Pro or 215 Pro, Bassboss SSP118 or DJ18S are the ones I'd look at first.  Most of the cheaper ones use non-neo drivers and sound a bit 'mushy', such as the common QSC/JBL/EV/FBT/etc options. 


 
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: What would you do here? Speakers-placement-subs?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2022, 10:49:10 PM »

Caleb, all great suggestions but most likely overkill for the room and group.

We can do install. This is our building (rented).

We are probably setup to seat about 80-90 and can probably add more seats up to 120-130

Besides being way more than we need, probably hard to justify the money for the overkill, other than the ability to expand with similar units.

Think more like the FBT Vertus CS 1000.

Worries that the wide patter will help in the middle but increase reflections off the walls

If you can install this - Martin CDD speakers, yoke brackets, subs, and a single 4-ch DSP amp.  I can help with EASE Focus.  Even the smaller CDD8 speakers and Danley TH-Mini sub could do great, cover better, and not be very pricey.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: What would you do here? Speakers-placement-subs?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2022, 03:50:00 PM »

If you can install this - Martin CDD speakers, yoke brackets, subs, and a single 4-ch DSP amp.  I can help with EASE Focus.  Even the smaller CDD8 speakers and Danley TH-Mini sub could do great, cover better, and not be very pricey.

This is the route that should be taken. You need an "exploded array" setup. Several small speaker in delay rings throughout the room. It is the only good way to get satisfying coverage out of a low ceilinged, semi-circular room like this without making the front row deaf so the back row can hear anything at all.

If new Danley or Martin stuff is out of budget look at used EAW UB-82 and UB-42 speakers on ebay. They are pretty decent and were kind of the defacto standard for this sort of thing 20 years ago. The more modern and capable Martin CDD and Danley offerings will usually be smaller and better sounding than the older EAW though.
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Re: What would you do here? Speakers-placement-subs?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2022, 03:50:00 PM »


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