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[scottstephens]

Ok guys and gals,

I went to a school today that has a partially new audio system installed.  I was asked to bid on doing sound for a musical using the new school gear, because the price was too high using all of my own gear.

Okay, so here is the question: Why would they need to have a Behringer X32 Compact and an X Air?  Aren't they basically the same thing? The Compact is on the audio table and the Air is 3 feet away in a rack with 12 Shure BLX mics, and 3 distros.  Did they get taken? If they did, it's not my job to tell them.  But I am thinking it was just a good ole boy DJ that someone knew.

A 16 channel snake runs from the mics to the Compact; 4 are extra.  The compact has a Cat 5 cable as well.  I couldn't find an S 16 or an amp anywhere. I couldn't look backstage because the kids were rehearsing and I didn't want to interrupt.  I know that there is an amp because the school has 4 mismatched Crate speakers on the wall. All aimed incorrectly and sitting on 4 inch  "L brackets."  These were from the previous lowest  bid installer.

The school had problems with feedback during their last show which they did themselves and was very small which is why they are wanting to hire me.  I provided sound and gear for the last 2 spring musicals. And everyone loved how it turned out.  With that being said, the installer submitted a bid to run the system for their show after the install was complete. I am sure that is why my bid was too high.

Thoughts?

Scott

[Don T. Williams]

The configuration sounds strange to me.  Did they have the Xair first and add the console to give them physical faders?  Did they get taken?  How could you know?  If they didn't replace the speakers, they should have.  The loudspeakers and mics make the most difference in how things sound assuming the consoles are operated correctly as I'm certain you already know.  Most school personnel have no idea what they need.

[Jay Marr]

It was definitely a X-Air and not a SD-8 or SD-16?  Form factor is very similar.

A SD would make sense to get more XLR inputs/outputs.
But a X-Air feeding (I'm assuming 2 XLRs) into a X32 is an odd set up.  Sounds like maybe somebody had both and just wanted to sell those units, instead of the right solution.  Or yes, somebody who didn't know what they were doing.

[Scott Bolt]

That configuration doesn't make sense if they bought it together.  An X32 Compact with a stage box for expansion makes sense.

Having said that, you have to play the ball where it lands.  First, find out what went into the decision for such an odd combination and make sure that the next step covers the use case they were thinking.

Next, sell the X-Air and use the money to get an SD16.  The combination will give you the ability to mix 38 channel inputs (32 XLR and Six 1/4" inputs).

If they thought the X-Air would be a good monitor mixer, then show them how to mix individual monitor mixes on the X32 using the phone app and show them how the "sends"  on the X32 to make up to 16 separate mono monitor mixes or 8 stereo monitor mixes.

If their only thought was to increase their inputs from 16XLR to 32, then the X-Air is a horrible solution compared to the SD16.

Be sure to let us know how this shakes out.  I am dying of curiosity

[Craig Hauber]

Ok guys and gals,

I went to a school today that has a partially new audio system installed.  I was asked to bid on doing sound for a musical using the new school gear, because the price was too high using all of my own gear.

Okay, so here is the question: Why would they need to have a Behringer X32 Compact and an X Air?  Aren't they basically the same thing? The Compact is on the audio table and the Air is 3 feet away in a rack with 12 Shure BLX mics, and 3 distros.  Did they get taken? If they did, it's not my job to tell them.  But I am thinking it was just a good ole boy DJ that someone knew.

A 16 channel snake runs from the mics to the Compact; 4 are extra.  The compact has a Cat 5 cable as well.  I couldn't find an S 16 or an amp anywhere. I couldn't look backstage because the kids were rehearsing and I didn't want to interrupt.  I know that there is an amp because the school has 4 mismatched Crate speakers on the wall. All aimed incorrectly and sitting on 4 inch  "L brackets."  These were from the previous lowest  bid installer.

The school had problems with feedback during their last show which they did themselves and was very small which is why they are wanting to hire me.  I provided sound and gear for the last 2 spring musicals. And everyone loved how it turned out.  With that being said, the installer submitted a bid to run the system for their show after the install was complete. I am sure that is why my bid was too high.

Thoughts?

Scott

I've done some small school gym-with-stage type spaces with a small permanently installed mixer for the athletic dept and basic assembly uses but when drama or music dept does a production they haul out a larger more capable console.
Mostly the built-in device ends up being a proper system DSP with remote knobs or touch-panel interface but I've seen other installations just using a small rack mount mixer.
Maybe in your situation the x-air is the permanent "installed" (easier-to-run) solution and the X32 is only used for musicals?

[Russell Ault]

{...}
The school had problems with feedback during their last show which they did themselves and was very small which is why they are wanting to hire me.  I provided sound and gear for the last 2 spring musicals. And everyone loved how it turned out.  With that being said, the installer submitted a bid to run the system for their show after the install was complete. I am sure that is why my bid was too high.

Thoughts?

This sounds like a first-rate mess to me, and if you agree to use the school's gear you're also effectively agreeing to take full responsibility when things ultimately suck (which, judging by the description you've given of the PA alone, they probably will). There's a very real chance you'll end up looking bad and be miserable, all at the same time.

I'm not sure what your usual rig would be for these shows, but the only parts of what you've described that I'd consider using are the wireless (BLX is...okay...) and maybe the X32 Compact if it will work with your workflow (at least it's not a Producer). If they'll let you bid a half-and-half rig (i.e. their RF, your "everything else") and that makes sense to you business-wise then that might be an acceptable compromise, but if they really only want to pay for your time, if it were me I'd be tempted to sit this one out and remind them why your full range of services are worth paying for.

-Russ

PS - If the RF is all running to the X32 (which, fair), what the heck is actually plugged into the X-Air?!?

[Helge A Bentsen]

This sound like a can of worms.
I wouldn’t touch a gig there without being able to bring in my own gear.

[Joe Pieternella]

Is there a possibility that the xAir was already there and they later decided to go to a compact?
I can't imagine someone wanting to do theater on a faderless desk.

That rack with the receivers was probably the entire setup or a "B" setup for smaller events in other locations.
The 16ch snake between going straight into the receivers is a clue. I would much prefer a snake with some spare cables than 12 or more seperate xlrs I'd have to mark and probably loom myself.

I can see a Xair being used in a pinch as an placeholder for a proper stagebox.
Lead times for S16's and S32's is expressed in months on my side of the pond.

Maybe you could offer to use your mixer and PA and their RF assuming its of decent quality and reasonably maintained. Alternatively you could trim your lighting package.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-N975F met Tapatalk

[Mike Caldwell]

I've done some small school gym-with-stage type spaces with a small permanently installed mixer for the athletic dept and basic assembly uses but when drama or music dept does a production they haul out a larger more capable console.
Mostly the built-in device ends up being a proper system DSP with remote knobs or touch-panel interface but I've seen other installations just using a small rack mount mixer.
Maybe in your situation the x-air is the permanent "installed" (easier-to-run) solution and the X32 is only used for musicals?

That was my thought as well, many school multi use systems have a small strip type mixer for the day in day out grab a mic and talk events.
But that would assume who ever designed, installed, upgraded the system had a clue.

Unfortunately from the your description it sounds more like the "design" was just more equipment getting thrown on top of what was already there.

[Dave Pluke]

That was my thought as well, many school multi use systems have a small strip type mixer for the day in day out grab a mic and talk events.

Agreed. The Client probably asked for a system that *anyone* could power up and use for general assemblies and got the X Air.

Installed systems can expand like farm houses; added onto as needs arise with no one really evaluating the overall workflow.

Dave

[Chris Grimshaw]

Thoughts?

Scott

The best engineer in the world, given crappy mics and speakers, will have trouble with feedback and sound quality. I'd explain, very clearly, that better equipment is needed for better results. They've invested in a mixing desk which they probably consider quite expensive, and while I'm sure it's an improvement over whatever was there previously, it won't save you from awful speakers.


I'd suggest organising a brief demo, if it's convenient for you to do so. Take one of your speakers (preferably one that can go on a tripod), set it up, and play some spoken word through it. Ask your contact at the school to walk around and listen, paying attention to the clarity of the sound as they move around. Then, switch to their system and repeat.

I've done this before, and it's often an eye-opener for them. They assume speakers on the wall = everything's fine, and we know that's not always the case.


With regards to the RF, desk, etc, it depends. Will the Shure BLX do the job? Which capsules are on there? Are you happy running their desk?


Chris

[Brian Jojade]

In regards to the X-air in the wireless rack, that makes sense as a standalone system.  BUT, if it was all purchased at the same time, the sales rep should be slapped because a much much better solution would have been to put an X32 Rack there instead.

The X32 rack would have allowed control without the need of a tablet in a pinch, plus, it then allows for easy connection into the x32 desk via AES.

The cost difference would only be a couple hundred bucks, but the value is massively greater than that.

[Mike Caldwell]

I'm guessing the school was having issues with the system, called someone and they came in sold them the X32 compact saying that this latest greatist digital mixer would fix all their problems.


 

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