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Author Topic: 2 X32 HA question  (Read 541 times)

Douglas R. Allen

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2 X32 HA question
« on: January 13, 2022, 08:02:04 PM »

1 X32 Compact for Monitor world
1 X32 For for FOH
1 DL32 on stage.

Setup - DL32 AES50A out to X32 Compact AES50A in. X32 Compact AES50B out to FOH AES50A in.

In the X32 Compact if I select HA Remote to AES50B will the X32 at FOH have control of the DL32's preamps?

Douglas R. Allen
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Luke Geis

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2022, 11:19:58 PM »

No, that just determines which ports the AES50 audio is coming from, you can select both. The HA Split is what allows you to determine which console has actual HA control, the other gets a digital trim ( it is not relative to the HA setting, but simply takes the incoming audio and allows you to digitally turn it up or down ). At least to the best of my knowledge : )
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Russell Ault

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2022, 12:14:00 AM »

1 X32 Compact for Monitor world
1 X32 For for FOH
1 DL32 on stage.

Setup - DL32 AES50A out to X32 Compact AES50A in. X32 Compact AES50B out to FOH AES50A in.

In the X32 Compact if I select HA Remote to AES50B will the X32 at FOH have control of the DL32's preamps?

Douglas R. Allen
IIRC the one time I tried this several years ago I found that an X32 won't "pass through" HA control, so in your example the X32 will control the Compact's HAs but not the DL32's (which can only be controlled by the Compact). Then again, this was at least one major firmware version ago, so it might be worth a try to see if that's changed.

-Russ
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2022, 04:23:11 AM »

1 X32 Compact for Monitor world
1 X32 For for FOH
1 DL32 on stage.

Setup - DL32 AES50A out to X32 Compact AES50A in. X32 Compact AES50B out to FOH AES50A in.

In the X32 Compact if I select HA Remote to AES50B will the X32 at FOH have control of the DL32's preamps?

Douglas R. Allen

2nd somewhat related with a different setup.

DL32 AES50A out to FOH AES50A in. FOH has gain
DL32 AES50B out to Monitor worlds AES50A in with it running trim.
Pretty much a standard setup.
   
    Band wants "Monitor Desk" to take channels 9-16 as USB/Card in. "USB source is on stage." This was tried and works fine for their click track and backing tracks in the monitor desk. Can they go Out from the monitor desk, through the DL32 and into FOH with these 9-16 channels? Maybe out the Monitor Desk sending channels 9-16 down to FOH on AES50 channels 33-40? Not sure if it is out on the Monitor desk AES50A or B for patching or even if it will work. I don't have 2 desks here to try and they are 1/2 way around the world. Doesn't look like the first question will work as they want so they are thinking of this 2nd setup.
   The repatching of channels where they need to go in each desk is easy but how to get those USB to Card channels that are going in on the Monitor desk down to FOH is not known or even if it is possible through the DL32. We are both aware of the total channel count the desk can do so the added USB/Card channels are in those limits. We have tried using 2 cat5e cables down to FOH, sending 9-16 out the Monitors desk AES50B out down to FOH AES50B in and it works as it should, but they would like to have just 1 cable down to FOH if possible. Can a AES50 steam be sent back from the Monitor desk to FOH through the DL32 or will 2 cat cables be needed?

Thanks for any input.

Douglas R. Allen
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Russell Ault

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2022, 02:41:36 PM »

2nd somewhat related with a different setup.

DL32 AES50A out to FOH AES50A in. FOH has gain
DL32 AES50B out to Monitor worlds AES50A in with it running trim.
Pretty much a standard setup.
   
    Band wants "Monitor Desk" to take channels 9-16 as USB/Card in. "USB source is on stage." This was tried and works fine for their click track and backing tracks in the monitor desk. Can they go Out from the monitor desk, through the DL32 and into FOH with these 9-16 channels? Maybe out the Monitor Desk sending channels 9-16 down to FOH on AES50 channels 33-40? Not sure if it is out on the Monitor desk AES50A or B for patching or even if it will work. I don't have 2 desks here to try and they are 1/2 way around the world. Doesn't look like the first question will work as they want so they are thinking of this 2nd setup.
   The repatching of channels where they need to go in each desk is easy but how to get those USB to Card channels that are going in on the Monitor desk down to FOH is not known or even if it is possible through the DL32. We are both aware of the total channel count the desk can do so the added USB/Card channels are in those limits. We have tried using 2 cat5e cables down to FOH, sending 9-16 out the Monitors desk AES50B out down to FOH AES50B in and it works as it should, but they would like to have just 1 cable down to FOH if possible. Can a AES50 steam be sent back from the Monitor desk to FOH through the DL32 or will 2 cat cables be needed?

Thanks for any input.

Douglas R. Allen

According to the DL32 Quick Start Guide this should work. Any signal that enters the DL32's AES50-B on channels 1-16 is passed through and comes back out on its AES50-A on channels 33-48. So in your case, if on the monitor console you patch AES50-A output channels 1-8 to source from whichever Card block you're using then those signals will show up at FOH as AES50-A input channels 33-40.

-Russ
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2022, 02:52:06 PM »

According to the DL32 Quick Start Guide this should work. Any signal that enters the DL32's AES50-B on channels 1-16 is passed through and comes back out on its AES50-A on channels 33-48. So in your case, if on the monitor console you patch AES50-A output channels 1-8 to source from whichever Card block you're using then those signals will show up at FOH as AES50-A input channels 33-40.

-Russ

Thank you!

Douglas R. Allen
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Brian Adams

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2022, 06:44:19 PM »

I much prefer to run with an analog split rather than gain sharing, so if you can swing that, it's definitely the way to go. All you'd need is a splitter, another DL32, and about 6-8 free spaces in the rack. I'm guessing only 1 or 2 of those things are practical though.

If you absolutely have to share gains, I'd give the gain control to the monitor desk and use trims at FOH. The monitor gain is unlikely to change much, except when something is clipping or other extreme circumstances, but I change my gains fairly often on the FOH board for various reasons. I would't want my changes at FOH to affect the monitors.

The other option, I suppose, is to give neither console direct control of the gains, and to adjust gains on the Preamp page. In this case, both consoles would have trim control, but the actual gain control is buried in the menu. A few things to think about, I guess.
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Phil B

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2022, 07:37:40 PM »

And reason they need a separate mixer for monitor world? Can't they use busses on the main mixer, and mix these using one of the available apps (mixing station or X32q)?

Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk

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Dan Mortensen

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2022, 07:41:45 PM »


If you absolutely have to share gains, I'd give the gain control to the monitor desk and use trims at FOH. The monitor gain is unlikely to change much, except when something is clipping or other extreme circumstances, but I change my gains fairly often on the FOH board for various reasons. I would't want my changes at FOH to affect the monitors.

While I agree with Brian's preference for analog split, he also highlights the reasons why it's unlikely to be an option in many cases.

Brian's quoted section is the way to go. Gain changes at FOH resulting from monitor HA changes are much easier to compensate for than the other way around. Presuming the Monitor Engineer is doing so gently rather than in one huge jump, should a huge change be necessary.

Minor changes should be no different in effect on FOH volume than the artists moving closer to or further away from the mics.

Any changes to monitor HA's will likely require big adjustments to lots of mixes, and the need would not be obvious to the Monitor Engineer until all band members using the affected mixes start complaining. Or feedback hits.
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2022, 07:45:24 PM »

And reason they need a separate mixer for monitor world? Can't they use busses on the main mixer, and mix these using one of the available apps (mixing station or X32q)?

Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk

Well, they could, but then either FOH or Monitors have a choice of either no EQ on inputs or whatever EQ the other desk is doing on the channels. Or double inputting everything.

And unless B is your full last name, how are you able to have 24 posts without having your display name be your full name?
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2022, 08:24:27 PM »

   This is not my setup so I can't comment on it. I'm giving someone else a hand. Although a passive split is what I do they have 8 tracks coming from USB. The monitor desk takes these 8 USB tracks in. It is what they want to do. To go to a splitter they would need a system to turn those tracks into XLR outs to go to the splitter snake. They have the system now it's just a matter of getting it up and running. FOH and Monitors are run by the band and it's their system including the PA so Gain changing from FOH is what they want. I won't question that I'll just find a solution for the USB split they need to Monitors and FOH

Douglas R. Allen
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Russell Ault

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2022, 10:30:13 PM »

{...} And unless B is your full last name, how are you able to have 24 posts without having your display name be your full name?

Not all areas of the PSW forums have a "real name" requirement.

{...}

Phil, just a heads-up, here in the LAB Lounge (and in a few of the other subs) there's a requirement that your display name be your real, full name. In these subs, forum members are prohibited from interacting with your posts—and any threads you start will be locked—until your display name complies with the policy.

-Russ
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2022, 11:37:13 PM »

Not all areas of the PSW forums have a "real name" requirement.

Phil, just a heads-up, here in the LAB Lounge (and in a few of the other subs) there's a requirement that your display name be your real, full name. In these subs, forum members are prohibited from interacting with your posts—and any threads you start will be locked—until your display name complies with the policy.

-Russ

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=67324

You may find reading pleasure, or not...
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Mac Kerr

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2022, 12:03:51 AM »

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=67324

You may find reading pleasure, or not...

More interesting would be the responses that quoted those posts. They might show that he changed his last name to “B” on 1/3/22. His previous posts used a full last name. The last nam B has been banned from posting, but may log in to correct the error.

Mac
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Russell Ault

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Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2022, 07:31:48 PM »

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=67324

You may find reading pleasure, or not...

I did take a look at that. I do kind of get where he's coming from (particularly given what the dealership situation can be like around here; the last time I asked for a quote from a local dealer it came in 10% above MAP, although admittedly that was for QLXD), but at some point a person just has to accept the fact that the purchase price for non-commodity items is going to be highly contextual, at which point "published prices" (if they exist) are, at best, a worst-case scenario.

More interesting would be the responses that quoted those posts. They might show that he changed his last name to “B” on 1/3/22. His previous posts used a full last name. The last nam B has been banned from posting, but may log in to correct the error.

Huh, then I really got nothing.

-Russ
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: 2 X32 HA question
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2022, 07:31:48 PM »


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