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Author Topic: Bar Band PA question  (Read 755 times)

Jon Rosen

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Bar Band PA question
« on: January 13, 2022, 02:46:58 PM »

Can we mount a Fulcrum Acoustic FA28 on top of an EAW FR152Hi and run it as a "stereo" pair mono tower? Basically pan the vocals and acoustic guitar through the Fulcrum and pan the rest through the EAW the other way.
We play places where space is tight and we're a six piece.
We'll need to buy a DSP power amp for this as the Fulcrum is passive and requires it. Would a Dynacord L1800FD DSP be a good choice? Could we get away the L1300FD in regards to power?

Thanks,
Jon
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2022, 06:43:01 PM »

That is generally considered to be a dual PA and can work well. I don't see this setup needing hugh power in a typical bar or pub but of course those spaces can range in size from that of a living room to a wharehouse so I guess it depends, but I think either one of those amps would do the trick.
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Matt Vivlamore

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2022, 10:16:16 PM »

honestly... that sounds like too much work for a bar band.

I bet the Fulcrums can handle the full band.  What subs are you running under then mains?
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MikeHarris

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2022, 01:02:54 AM »

always best toconfirm amp/DSP choice with Fulcrum as their best performance takes advanced processing
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Jon Rosen

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2022, 09:23:47 AM »

That is generally considered to be a dual PA and can work well. I don't see this setup needing hugh power in a typical bar or pub but of course those spaces can range in size from that of a living room to a wharehouse so I guess it depends, but I think either one of those amps would do the trick.

Dual PA! I like the sound of that. It'll make me sound like I know what I'm talking about.  ;)
I'll probably opt for more power in case we want to run the other EAW in parallel. Thanks so much for your reply!
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Jon Rosen

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2022, 09:40:43 AM »

honestly... that sounds like too much work for a bar band.

I bet the Fulcrums can handle the full band.  What subs are you running under then mains?

We've never used the Fulcrums before so it's kind of untested. We'll still need a DSP amp to run it and if that's the case it will cut down on lugging a big speaker!

And we've never used a sub before. The places we play are so small and we never put the bass thru the PA. That could all change if we like just the Fulcrum and try to get more control of the sound then a small sub might be needed.
Thanks
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Jon Rosen

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2022, 09:43:34 AM »

always best toconfirm amp/DSP choice with Fulcrum as their best performance takes advanced processing

Fulcrum do have a PDF on their website with a list of power amps that are capable. I might contact them just to confirm this and power requirements.
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2022, 01:22:44 PM »

We've never used the Fulcrums before so it's kind of untested. We'll still need a DSP amp to run it and if that's the case it will cut down on lugging a big speaker!

Do you or somebody in the band already own that Fulcrum? If not then why don't you cut down on the lugging some more.. what you describe is a prefect application for a self powered box.. even if it is some other brand. You will have to spend the same kind of money as that Fulcrum box and the DSP amp combined of course(https://meyersound.com/product/ultra-x40/), I'm not suggesting this as a cost savings effort because it won't be if you want the same level of performance. But then again a pub band can certainly get by with something other than a touring class speaker system, lots of acts certainly manage with far more humble gear.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 01:37:21 PM by Paul G. OBrien »
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2022, 03:39:10 PM »

If not then why don't you cut down on the lugging some more.. what you describe is a prefect application for a self powered box.. even if it is some other brand. You will have to spend the same kind of money as that Fulcrum box and the DSP amp combined of course......

 I'm not suggesting this as a cost savings effort because it won't be if you want the same level of performance. But then again a pub band can certainly get by with something other than a touring class speaker system, lots of acts certainly manage with far more humble gear.

+1.  For small stuff like this, good powered boxes take up the least space and get the job done.  Cost is usually pretty close when you compare powered systems vs non powered and are sticking with the same quality level.

But, as Paul pointed out, if you're playing in places that are too crammed for proper speakers to start with, chances are you don't need top of the line anything to please the clients.
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Brian Jojade

Tim Weaver

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2022, 03:45:27 PM »

Yeah. Do what it takes to run the Fulcrum properly and just ditch everything else.

That EAW box isn't known for clean, high output. The Fulcrum stuff is in a whole other league above what most bar bands play with. You'll be surprised at just what one of them can do when properly processed and powered. And if you need more, bring out the other box.
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Robert Healey

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2022, 03:53:48 PM »

Do you or somebody in the band already own that Fulcrum? If not then why don't you cut down on the lugging some more.. what you describe is a prefect application for a self powered box.. even if it is some other brand. You will have to spend the same kind of money as that Fulcrum box and the DSP amp combined of course(https://meyersound.com/product/ultra-x40/), I'm not suggesting this as a cost savings effort because it won't be if you want the same level of performance. But then again a pub band can certainly get by with something other than a touring class speaker system, lots of acts certainly manage with far more humble gear.

I get the point and am in general agreement (I ditched the amp racks myself), but a pair of FA28s and a Dynacord L3600FD (which I believe is the cheapest amp on Fulcrum's list in the power range recommended for the FA28) is significantly less cost than those Meyer boxes.
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Jon Rosen

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2022, 05:00:28 PM »

Do you or somebody in the band already own that Fulcrum? If not then why don't you cut down on the lugging some more.. what you describe is a prefect application for a self powered box.. even if it is some other brand. You will have to spend the same kind of money as that Fulcrum box and the DSP amp combined of course(https://meyersound.com/product/ultra-x40/), I'm not suggesting this as a cost savings effort because it won't be if you want the same level of performance. But then again a pub band can certainly get by with something other than a touring class speaker system, lots of acts certainly manage with far more humble gear.

We own just the one Fulcrum, got it used very cheaply, too low to walk away from with no plan for it!
Previous to buying it I was thinking of picking up a pair of the new RCF NX 912-a for my keyboard. Depending on the night run mono or stereo and then mix and match them with Fulcrum, EAW's and JBL's for the band. As I type it out it seems like too much work.

The Meyer's look great but out of my price range.
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2022, 05:58:28 PM »

We own just the one Fulcrum, got it used very cheaply, too low to walk away from with no plan for it!
Previous to buying it I was thinking of picking up a pair of the new RCF NX 912-a for my keyboard. Depending on the night run mono or stereo and then mix and match them with Fulcrum, EAW's and JBL's for the band. As I type it out it seems like too much work.

Yes.. there is much to be said for the KISS principle, those NX912's would be plenty suitable for what you're doing here and a healthy improvement sonicaly from a passive speaker with none or only minimal processing.
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Art Welter

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2022, 06:04:00 PM »

We own just the one Fulcrum, got it used very cheaply, too low to walk away from with no plan for it!
Previous to buying it I was thinking of picking up a pair of the new RCF NX 912-a for my keyboard.
Jon,

If you are all using in-ear monitors, with no acoustic drums, a 2x8" may work for you.
The FA 28 is a great sounding speaker, but you can't expect much bottom (say goodby below 65Hz) from a single passive 8" co-ax with a helper 8". A subwoofer with a pole mount for the FA 28 would work for (very) small rooms.

If you were considering a pair of 12" for just the keyboard, your stage volume will likely exceed what the 2x8" is capable of.

If you are all using in-ear monitors, with no acoustic drums, a 2x8" may work for you.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2022, 06:26:23 PM »

Jon,

If you are all using in-ear monitors, with no acoustic drums, a 2x8" may work for you.
The FA 28 is a great sounding speaker, but you can't expect much bottom (say goodby below 65Hz) from a single passive 8" co-ax with a helper 8". A subwoofer with a pole mount for the FA 28 would work for (very) small rooms.

If you were considering a pair of 12" for just the keyboard, your stage volume will likely exceed what the 2x8" is capable of.

If you are all using in-ear monitors, with no acoustic drums, a 2x8" may work for you.

My thought as well.  The FA22 is likely a better option, and you won't have to monkey with a dual PA type setup. 

Regardless of what speakers - you always (IMHO) need a subwoofer or two.  Main speakers simply can't reproduce an impactful kick like a real subwoofer.  The few that kind of can (Danley SM80F) are getting up there in size.
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Matt Vivlamore

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2022, 06:52:53 PM »

We've never used the Fulcrums before so it's kind of untested. We'll still need a DSP amp to run it and if that's the case it will cut down on lugging a big speaker!

And we've never used a sub before. The places we play are so small and we never put the bass thru the PA. That could all change if we like just the Fulcrum and try to get more control of the sound then a small sub might be needed.
Thanks

I prefer having a sub as a speaker stand instead of an actual speaker stand.  I'm not sure what out there is compact with an external amp, but I would look at the EV ETX15SP, RCF Sub905, Yamaha DXS15XLF for a nice compact system.

I demo'd the Fulcrum TS215ac (powered version) years ago, and I wasn't thrilled of it.  I'm a previous Fulcrum FA22ac owner and kick myself for selling them when I "retired" from the business.  I started back up with JBL SRX812P over SRX828SP and now replacing the SRX812P with the new RCF NXL44Amk2 (hopefully delivered in March).
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 06:59:55 PM by Matt Vivlamore »
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2022, 07:09:05 PM »



Regardless of what speakers - you always (IMHO) need a subwoofer or two.  Main speakers simply can't reproduce an impactful kick like a real subwoofer.  The few that kind of can (Danley SM80F) are getting up there in size.

That's assuming that you're putting a kick drum through the PA.  If you are, then, yes, a sub would be required to make that sound decent.  If you're just putting vocals and guitar through the system, then no sub would be needed.  In a small room, the bass amp alone can do its job.
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Brian Jojade

Brian Jojade

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2022, 07:12:12 PM »

I prefer having a sub as a speaker stand instead of an actual speaker stand. 

I agree.  The 'look' of tripod stands just never worked well for me.  Somehow a box with a stick out of it is cleaner and prettier to my eye.

And now the mini towers on top of subs are becoming quite a common sight as well, so there's just the straight stick out of the sub box.  These are becoming my go-to systems for smaller events.  Super clean, and fast to deploy.  Sound quality isn't too shabby either.
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Brian Jojade

Caleb Dueck

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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2022, 08:27:54 PM »

In a small room, the bass amp alone can do its job.

True, that's why I mentioned kick in particular - it seems to be one of the first instruments that gets lost, and needs subwoofers the most.  Agreed that for small rooms a good bass amp can get by without a PA. 
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Re: Bar Band PA question
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2022, 08:27:54 PM »


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