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Author Topic: Column speakers systems  (Read 2410 times)

Matt Vivlamore

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Column speakers systems
« on: January 08, 2022, 01:55:48 PM »

What is everyone thoughts on ďcolumnĒ systems? 
They look more versatile than a standard point source box.  Would they be a better alternative than a small 1-3 box line array system?


Speakers Iím talking about are: dB tech IG1T, IG2T, IG3T & IG4T; FBT CLA206A & CLA406.2A; RCF NXL24A, NXL44A, T_4A, & TTL6A.
Not talking about the stick PA like Bose L1, JBL PRX-One or Turbosound Inspire rigs.
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gordonmcgregor

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Re: Column speakers systems
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2022, 03:27:03 PM »

What is everyone thoughts on ďcolumnĒ systems? 
They look more versatile than a standard point source box.  Would they be a better alternative than a small 1-3 box line array system?


Speakers Iím talking about are: dB tech IG1T, IG2T, IG3T & IG4T; FBT CLA206A & CLA406.2A; RCF NXL24A, NXL44A, T_4A, & TTL6A.
Not talking about the stick PA like Bose L1, JBL PRX-One or Turbosound Inspire rigs.
As I've said before the IG3s and possibly the 4s are the best value and bang for buck in the dBtech  Igenia family, I just find the IG3 a little easier to put up on a stand and it seems to be happier running without a sub.  If you buy 4 and have some way of hanging them coupled in pairs you end up with quite a beefy system that weighs about 100 pounds a side, the beam steer thing works pretty much as advertised. There are Ease Focus models for  the whole range so you can have a better guess at coverage if you want by running some predictions there.
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Column speakers systems
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2022, 05:13:13 PM »

What is everyone thoughts on ďcolumnĒ systems? 
They look more versatile than a standard point source box.  Would they be a better alternative than a small 1-3 box line array system?


Speakers Iím talking about are: dB tech IG1T, IG2T, IG3T & IG4T; FBT CLA206A & CLA406.2A; RCF NXL24A, NXL44A, T_4A, & TTL6A.
Not talking about the stick PA like Bose L1, JBL PRX-One or Turbosound Inspire rigs.

I find that most of them sounds less than ideal, but they do a decent job in terrible rooms keeping sound off the ceiling/floor.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Column speakers systems
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2022, 05:25:14 PM »

To me, any of the small column solutions that you mentioned would be way more appealing and practical than setting up a 3-box a side line array element hang, which really isnít a line array.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Column speakers systems
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2022, 07:42:58 PM »

What is everyone thoughts on ďcolumnĒ systems? 
They look more versatile than a standard point source box.  Would they be a better alternative than a small 1-3 box line array system?


Speakers Iím talking about are: dB tech IG1T, IG2T, IG3T & IG4T; FBT CLA206A & CLA406.2A; RCF NXL24A, NXL44A, T_4A, & TTL6A.
Not talking about the stick PA like Bose L1, JBL PRX-One or Turbosound Inspire rigs.

Here's how I sort this type of speakers from 'toy' to 'real'. 
-Compression driver exist size, diaphragm size, and manufacturer
-Diameter of low-mid drivers - IE lots of 2" drivers get passed over while 6.5" or larger roughly get looked at closer.

The ones you've listed span quite a range.  The IG lineup is cost-based mostly, while the TTL4A and TTL6A are full rock and roll ready.  FBT 406.2A in the middle. 

Are you looking for more of a bar application, or an outdoor concert in the park application?  Tripod only, or flown? 
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Dave Guilford

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Re: Column speakers systems
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2022, 08:15:25 PM »


The ones you've listed span quite a range.  The IG lineup is cost-based mostly, while the TTL4A and TTL6A are full rock and roll ready.  FBT 406.2A in the middle. 

Are you looking for more of a bar application, or an outdoor concert in the park application?  Tripod only, or flown?

Iím not OP but Iím looking at similar moves.  Letís say outdoor concert in the park. Flown maybe, but may be ground stacked too.  What do you recommend?
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Column speakers systems
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2022, 08:40:39 PM »

Iím not OP but Iím looking at similar moves.  Letís say outdoor concert in the park. Flown maybe, but may be ground stacked too.  What do you recommend?

Keep in mind these are just my opinions, and that I've moved from live production to system design - which is both a challenge and also has really opened my eyes.

This application seems to be in the middle.  It's a bit large, or potentially large, for nearly any speaker that can safely go on a stand.  Making the jump from a couple speakers on tripods per side to flown or 'large format ground stack' like scaffold - is a much larger $$$ jump than just picking out a few speakers. 

To me, that leaves two options -
A) The highest SPL, longest 'throw' speakers (narrow pattern, point source not simply trap box, etc) that can still fit the SoS format.
B) Speakers that can be turned up, and flown for more even front to rear coverage, to not only cover out to a farther distance but also to not flatten the first 15m of audience in the process.

For A - the DIY PM60, RCF TTL4A, TW Audio T24N, Danley SM80, and possibly a couple more (JTR 212 XT) come to mind.  While the Fulcrum FA22 sounds amazing - look at SPL models, and how it doesn't cover as well at distance compared to, say, the T24N.  This class of speakers will top out at a lower coverage area size, but the overall $$ will be low enough that you may be able to add delays or such and still make great ROI.   

For B - you're giving up SoS capability, so your labor for smaller gigs will be relatively high.  Scaffold, ground stack on a tall-ish stack of subs, spacers, etc are all slow to deploy and potentially expensive.  For larger gigs, where it's assumed you'll fly, is where these can expand upward for larger areas. 

Options in this class are TTL6A, Danley SH46, SH96HO, and especially the J7.  There are various used options that may or may not make sense, as repairs can quickly eat into ROI, such as KF850, Flash/Flood, etc.  The other issue you'll notice are riders - trap boxes or point sources may not be as accepted as an array, and some brands like Hennessey (MantArray tops) may perform great but be rejected since most touring RnR FOH engineers haven't heard of them. 

If I were looking at this class of speakers - I'd look very closely at J7 mains, SH95HO down/out/lip fills, and plenty of DBH218 or TH118XL subwoofers.  This allows for a very wide range of size gigs you can do well with one system, which can help ROI.  At this level, I'll say you should look closer at overall ROI than up-front cost.  This is where wide flexibility really comes into play, even though something like J7 mains cost more than, say, TTL6As. 

Also at this level, the focus isn't as much the speakers - it's logistics, labor time, ROI, rigging, power and signal distribution, etc.  Oh and subwoofers - something like Danley J7s have a lot of SPL output, and depending on music style - may need a significant pile of subwoofers to keep up.  The cost of subwoofers/sub amps, cabling, and such is likely significantly higher than the cost of the mains speakers/fills/amps.   

Last comments - learn how to use various modeling software (Direct, ArrayCalc, EASE Focus 2 and 3, etc).  Look at lows, mids, and highs.  Look at how trim height affects front-to-rear evenness.  After living in model-world for a while to shorten the short list even further - then demo the final couple options in person, even if you have to buy a plane ticket.  Look closely at rigging, signal transport, amplifier requirements, electrical requirements, deployment speed and flexibility.   Look closely at the gigs you have booked, the ones you honestly expect to book, and the ones you can potentially book in the future with the new system.  If they're 100-500 people - stick with Option A above even if J7s make you drool.  If they realistically are 500++ people - look past the up-front cheap price of Option A and Buy Once/Cry Once Option B.

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Matt Vivlamore

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Re: Column speakers systems
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2022, 10:10:13 PM »

Here's how I sort this type of speakers from 'toy' to 'real'. 
-Compression driver exist size, diaphragm size, and manufacturer
-Diameter of low-mid drivers - IE lots of 2" drivers get passed over while 6.5" or larger roughly get looked at closer.

The ones you've listed span quite a range.  The IG lineup is cost-based mostly, while the TTL4A and TTL6A are full rock and roll ready.  FBT 406.2A in the middle. 

Are you looking for more of a bar application, or an outdoor concert in the park application?  Tripod only, or flown?

I have the new RCF NXL44Amk2 on order that are going to replace my SRX812p for main speaker application.  I'm getting away from the bar work and more into the 'outdoor concerts in the parks' community events.  Majority of the time, I'm going to stack the NXL44 directly on top of SRX828SP (current subs; 1 over 1 per side). 

My curiosity is, when the time comes... should I buy 2 more NXL44's and stack/fly them OR should I start investing in a HDL20s Line Array system.

As for Riders, I'm not going after 'as spec'd rider requirement' shows/events; but I'll be able to fill the "enough PA for the event and have ## of wedges".  I am classifying myself as an 'upscale weekend warrior'.
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Matt Vivlamore

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Re: Column speakers systems
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2022, 10:20:33 PM »

Iím not OP but Iím looking at similar moves.  Letís say outdoor concert in the park. Flown maybe, but may be ground stacked too.  What do you recommend?

We're in the same boat.  I restarted last year and only could find/afford the SRX812P mains and worked them as much as I could and found the limits of the mains.  I am making the move from the SRX812P to the new NXL44Amk2 and I am hoping this move give me the performance I am looking for.  Right now, I plan on ground stacking the mains right above the subs. 

I did look at the SRX835p and DZR315, but decided to give the NXL's a try.  I also have the NX12SMA wedges and like the their sound.
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: Column speakers systems
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2022, 04:24:23 AM »

I personally would love to see some quantitative comparison to show overlap in capabilities between the TTL6A, the J7, and the J3 as the upper end of point-and-shoot boxes.  After hearing the J3 in the wild Iíd be very curious to see (hear) how close the J7 and TTL6A can come despite their smaller size and lower cost.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Column speakers systems
¬ę Reply #9 on: January 09, 2022, 04:24:23 AM ¬Ľ


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