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Author Topic: power cable questions  (Read 3682 times)

Sam Saponaro Jr

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power cable questions
« on: December 06, 2021, 01:49:39 AM »

couple quick questions
I was going through my cables the other night organizing and replacing a couple plug ends.
I have two cables I got thinking about....one is a 12ga I put a quad on and nice leviton plug but it's from my early days so it was and orange contractor cord I wrapped in black tape to blackout on stage....is that something I can get my ballsbroken for?? I have a couple like that still.
the other is a nice fat 12ga cable but it's 12/4 and I'm only using blk wht and grn I capped the red off in the 4x4 box is that legal?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 01:52:12 AM by Sam Saponaro Jr »
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: power cable questions
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2021, 12:25:40 PM »

couple quick questions
I was going through my cables the other night organizing and replacing a couple plug ends.
I have two cables I got thinking about....one is a 12ga I put a quad on and nice leviton plug but it's from my early days so it was and orange contractor cord I wrapped in black tape to blackout on stage....is that something I can get my ballsbroken for?? I have a couple like that still.
the other is a nice fat 12ga cable but it's 12/4 and I'm only using blk wht and grn I capped the red off in the 4x4 box is that legal?

By 4X 4 boxes are you talking the ubiquitous 4 X 4's with knock outs?  Those are a problem in a portable situation because knock outs tend to get knocked out.

The capped red is not a problem.  I suppose if an inspector was being difficult, depending on the box size it might put you over the allowable conductor count-but if that becomes an issue, in most cases you already ticked the inspector off somehow.
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Steve Swaffer

Brian Jojade

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Re: power cable questions
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2021, 05:56:31 PM »

The orange extension cord is likely not allowed for stage use.  Covering it in black tape at least hides your shame of having an orange cord on stage, but it still would not be code, as that needs to be SO rated cable.  If it's wrapped in black electrical tape, yeah, balls broken. If you used gaff tape, I'd give you stink eye, but at least a nod for trying.

The 12/4 cable should not be a problem.  I don't think there's anywhere in the code that specifies that all wires need to be connected, although I could be wrong.  But, standard outlet boxes with knockouts are a definite no-no.  Those are designed for permanent install. The knockouts are too easy to accidentally knock out, and worse, the clamping mechanism is designed for a stationary box. Rotation and movement will mean the cable coming loose in the box quite easily.  Code also says that the box should not lay on the stage with the outlet facing UP. You need a box that rests on its side to satisfy code.
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Brian Jojade

Sam Saponaro Jr

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Re: power cable questions
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2021, 12:52:33 AM »

ok good on the 12/4 it's nice 600v soow and I'd hate to not use it.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: power cable questions
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2021, 07:41:08 PM »

The orange cord is likely SJ- type, usually not considered suitable for stage use. The J means "junior service" and has thinner jacket and thinner insulation, rendering it less durable.

As for the unused conductor, you can cap it off in the box and that'll be OK, but what about the plug end? If you just cut it short, that's probably a no-no, as it's now a conductor that's not properly terminated -- and I don't think I've ever seen a plug with enough room for a wire nut.
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John Fruits

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Re: power cable questions
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2021, 07:24:09 AM »

As far as the 4 x 4 box are you referring to the commonly named "1900 box"?
https://www.electrical4u.com/1900-electrical-box/
As far as SJ cable the 2017 NEC relaxed it's use slightly.  The 2020 NEC relaxed it even more, but primarily for use in "protected applications".  Also power breakouts and stringers that are attached to truss or pipe for example can be up to 100 feet long.  The cable on your "Ghost Light" can be type SJ and up to 100 feet long.  The NEC calls Type SJ cable Hard Usage and Type S cable Extra Hard Usage.
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Sam Saponaro Jr

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Re: power cable questions
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2021, 05:04:39 PM »

yes a 1900 box 4x4 junction box type. those aren't legal for stage??
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: power cable questions
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2021, 10:04:59 PM »

yes a 1900 box 4x4 junction box type. those aren't legal for stage??

"Legal"?  Code violations are not usually criminal matters unless A Bad Thing Happens.

How's your appetite for reading dense, seemingly conflicting technical things?  NFPA 70e, the "national electrical code", Chapters 1-4, Articles 520, 525, and 640.  Chances are good your local Authority Having Jurisdiction is not on the current revision... ;)  Also, the governmental unit (state/county/municipality) that sets the Codes in your area can adopt all, part, or none of the NFPA document and write their own, or some combination of the above.

The gist is that it's a violation to use a device in a manner for which it is not "listed".  Metal junction boxes with knock outs, pre-drilled holes, etc are not "listed" for use in temporary service under any Article; another common violation is use of Romex® clamps (for non-metalic sheathed cable with *portable cords*) - is not listed.  Metal boxes and cover plates also need to have assured grounding continuity with the boxes and cover bonded to the grounding conductor.  Are there such contrivances out in the wild?  Yes.  Try to not own any in your shop.
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Sam Saponaro Jr

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Re: power cable questions
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2021, 03:19:06 AM »

Thanks for helping me guys. I'm learning quite a bit on staging codes I did not know. I mainly do work were there is no inspection BUT I don't want to get caught with my pants down at a park or city concert on the green gig.. Guess I've been lucky.
and guess I also have some cables that gotta be fixed.
one last Q do duplex receptacles need to be commercial or industrial rated? can you use 15a recepticals on 12ga cable 20a circuit?
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: power cable questions
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2021, 07:46:21 AM »

15A receptacles are acceptable on 12 gauge cable in a 20 amp circuit.  The reasoning being, that a listed device plugged into a 15 A receptacle will not overload that receptacle-if it would it is required to have a 20 amp plug which will not fit in a 15 amp receptacle.  Of course, triple taps, etc. can overload a circuit.

Commercial/industrial rated wouldn't be required-but they will withstand multiple disconnections/connections better than resi receptacles so are probably a better choice.  Hint: shop around.  Your big box stores typically sell breaker boxes/wire and cheap devices at low prices.  As soon as you get into the less used things that people don't price shop for their prices sometimes get out of line.  I always bought my receptacles from my electrical supply house because I got a much better receptacle than the big box economy, but paid less than half of a premium/commercial receptable at a big box store.
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Steve Swaffer

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: power cable questions
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2021, 07:46:21 AM »


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