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[Peter Kowalczyk]

I’m not sure what your definition of a prosumer mixer is, but I’ll toss dLive in the mix.  Putting together a small C Class rig isn’t all that more costly than the other options discussed so far.

I’m sure prices have gone up a bit, but when I was shopping mixers back in 2018 dLive was the most logical next step beyond the M32 which offered a sufficient increase in capability to compensate for the higher price point.  I ended up with an S Class Mixrack for the multiple card options, but in my opinion until you consider something along the lines of a dLive you’re best sticking with an M32.  Hope this helps!

I'm not sure what sort of screamin' deals you've got access to (care to share?), but last time I priced out even a modest D Live system (Surface + Rack), it was several times expensive than an M32 system (Console + Stagebox), >> $10k.  I wouldn't consider that a 'Prosumer' level item. 

[Randall Cook]

I’m not sure what your definition of a prosumer mixer is, but I’ll toss dLive in the mix.  Putting together a small C Class rig isn’t all that more costly than the other options discussed so far.

I’m sure prices have gone up a bit, but when I was shopping mixers back in 2018 dLive was the most logical next step beyond the M32 which offered a sufficient increase in capability to compensate for the higher price point.  I ended up with an S Class Mixrack for the multiple card options, but in my opinion until you consider something along the lines of a dLive you’re best sticking with an M32.  Hope this helps!

Yeah, I don’t feel like the dLive is in the same ballpark as these others.  I’d prefer one, but that’s not in my budget.  I guess my definition of prosumer is around the 5-6k area for the board itself. 

[Scott Holtzman]

I’m not sure what your definition of a prosumer mixer is, but I’ll toss dLive in the mix.  Putting together a small C Class rig isn’t all that more costly than the other options discussed so far.

I’m sure prices have gone up a bit, but when I was shopping mixers back in 2018 dLive was the most logical next step beyond the M32 which offered a sufficient increase in capability to compensate for the higher price point.  I ended up with an S Class Mixrack for the multiple card options, but in my opinion until you consider something along the lines of a dLive you’re best sticking with an M32.  Hope this helps!

The only issue with the C - class is the "if I am going to spend this much money for a little bit more I can get dual power supplies in the DM32 box, budget 15k and then build a snake with a NEMA box and a DX164-W expansion box, which has a very cool 12V backup power input so you have power supply redundancy on your mix engine, inputs and expanders and you have spend about 17k.  Use a C class control surface C25000 for 18k.  The S class consoles are very expensive.  So what this gives you is a dual power supply system that if the control surface goes out you still have control via a computer with touchscreens or even a table.  To be dual PS's is step into the next level.  But you have still spend 35k so not sure how even the most basic C class or even the  Avantis D-Pack at 20k is in the same price as a Wing or an SQ. 


When your cross 30k you are touching on the same territory as an Avid S6L so I think we are so far from Prosumer at that point. 


While getting back to reality I did want to mention that the groups of 8 issue has long been eliminated by Firmware from the X/M32 ecosystem.  MG keeps surprising users with surprisingly well thought out updates that keep the platform fresh.


From a training standpoint you can toss a pebble and find an engineer that know X/M32, finding someone that know SQ is probably 500/1 compared to the X/M 32 community.  Our ever increasing X/M inventory, bolstered over the pandemic by club closings we had rigs at is still the every day staple for surprisingly large productions.  Seems everyone except the major tours has realized they can get a lot done for nothing with them.  I was stunned but even Bill Crater longtime engineer with Joan Jett and the Blackhearts took an M32 from us for a private event.  I don't see the X/M 32 becoming irreverent in the next 5 years or maybe we can even squeeze 10 out of them.


With regard to the comment of no remote for the WING, you can get Mixing station, which runs on a PC, IOS, Android and Behringer also has a remote app for both ENG and talent to control their monitor mix (along with a new personal mixing control). 

[Tim McCulloch]

From a training standpoint you can toss a pebble and find an engineer that know X/M32, finding someone that know SQ is probably 500/1 compared to the X/M 32 community.  Our ever increasing X/M inventory, bolstered over the pandemic by club closings we had rigs at is still the every day staple for surprisingly large productions.  Seems everyone except the major tours has realized they can get a lot done for nothing with them.  I was stunned but even Bill Crater longtime engineer with Joan Jett and the Blackhearts took an M32 from us for a private event.  I don't see the X/M 32 becoming irreverent in the next 5 years or maybe we can even squeeze 10 out of them.


With regard to the comment of no remote for the WING, you can get Mixing station, which runs on a PC, IOS, Android and Behringer also has a remote app for both ENG and talent to control their monitor mix (along with a new personal mixing control).

The use of WING with Midas DL-xxx i/o boxes is a pretty cool combination.  Considering the space/weight differences, I'd be inclined to look that way over a Pro 2.

[Scott Holtzman]

The use of WING with Midas DL-xxx i/o boxes is a pretty cool combination.  Considering the space/weight differences, I'd be inclined to look that way over a Pro 2.

We were never a Behringer repair center but we had an account and could buy parts and repaired lots of Behringer product over the years.  With the change in distribution that's my only down side.  I have never had to call support for a technical question and we have only had a couple of warranty interactions but the parts and distribution change to me is the only downside.


I am very interested that you made this comment because I know you had a lot of Pro 2 stick time and we had a great Pro 1 and Pro 2 cross rental agreement and I always liked the mixer.  We now have access to a pair of Avid Venue's and mix racks so I don't get to use the Midas much anymore.


Getting back on track.  I played with a couple of Wings and the display is big bright and lovely.  An external HDMI port would have been such an awesome inclusion.  It looked like it would take a bit of time to learn the good stuff but I had no issue getting around and getting my job done.  I never understood the stereo channel choice.  Being able to create a mono channel might have pushed the channel count to high and nibbled at the sale of other products?  I don't know. 


It's good to hear that you like it too.  I was shocked when someone we both know from a popular 80's hairband frontman's sound engineer, who is a major Midas and Avid user accepted the WING that the support act was carrying.  He of course had comments about it's performance but in the end of the night the show sounded great and the other A1 was with him no handle any questions.  He will never admit it but it sure looked like he was enjoying using it.  It's 1/3 of the price of an Avantis and works with our entire M/X32 ecosystem that is bought and paid for.


An Avantis is never going to be on a rider so at the end of the day the WING gets us an in house board with a higher channel count which is exactly what we need amd cam still get the Midas or Avid gear if it is asked for. 


It's just like our lighting rig from my standpoint.  We have 3 excellent LD's we work with that have their own gear and of course skills, if a client wants a real light show we have the partner.  We have no interest in competing against that.  However we need to provide lights for shows with minimal lighting budgets but they are still too complicated to try and run on Showxpress.  Jeff Leko recommended the ETC Congo and we were able to pick up a Congo Jr. at a decent price.  Nobody with a lighting rider will want it but there still is a marker for that board with a dozen Chinese sharpie's some Mac Aura clones, Blizzard PARS and generic blinders (we still have ACL's if you have the power!).  It fits a niche.  I think the WING will do the same thing.  Besides they're $3500 and available right now, what have I got to lose? 


Thanks Tim

[Jeff Lelko]

Yeah, I don’t feel like the dLive is in the same ballpark as these others.  I’d prefer one, but that’s not in my budget.  I guess my definition of prosumer is around the 5-6k area for the board itself.

I don't disagree with this or what Scott and Peter said.  I read your original post as "I'm using an M32 right now - what else is out there that's worth a look for upgrading?" 

Back when I was shopping for digital mixers the M32 was essentially best-in-class.  Any upgrade from that wasn't worth the money until you ventured into dLive territory which is the route I ended up going.  I demo'd the SQ Series but felt it was more of what the QU Series should have been originally.  I haven't touched Avantis or WING so no comments there, but unless there's a specific feature set you need in one of those products there's not a whole lot to gain from going any other route.  The WING with Midas DL-xxx i/o that Tim suggested might be a worthwhile tipping point though if you're already in that ecosystem, but I don't have enough experience with that product line to have an opinion of substance.  Hope that helps explain my point of view though!

[Steve Eudaly]

We bought a WING and a beautiful custom case from LM late February 2020 (whoopsie) but it's got the faulty touch screen issues. Inputs were muting without warning. According to the Tribe folks, a replacement screen is currently unobtanium, so that's fun.

Hopefully we can get it repaired and trust it once again, because it really is fun to mix on and offers a lot of flexibility.

[Daniel Levi]

We bought a WING and a beautiful custom case from LM late February 2020 (whoopsie) but it's got the faulty touch screen issues. Inputs were muting without warning. According to the Tribe folks, a replacement screen is currently unobtanium, so that's fun.

Hopefully we can get it repaired and trust it once again, because it really is fun to mix on and offers a lot of flexibility.

With the latest firmware you can now, at least, turn off the touchscreen and use a USB mouse instead.

[John L Nobile]

I really liked the Soundcraft Performer 3. It was the closest thing to an analog board I've ever used. Having 32 faders and a preamp knob on every channel was great and it sounded really good. It was nice having 32 inputs and 16 outs on the back. You could use it without an expensive stage box. And it's advertised as being able to mix 80 channels and has DMX out. Shame about the tiny screen though.

I hope they update the design with a screen and the ability to use UAD plugins. I have an Apollo and the plugins are the best I've heard. UAD plugins are available on the V1 series but that's expensive. I think the lack of a screen interface and a higher price tag than X/M 32 etc hurt its sales.

[Dave Pluke]

I’ve been using a full size M32 for several years now.  I’m looking to get a new mixer and I’m looking for opinions for either staying with the M32 or going for something different.  I don’t need rider friendly.

Given the current state of the Supply Chain & subsequent pricing, I'd say the "best" mixer is the one you have already paid for that is still functioning.

IMHO, the other mixers in the same class as the M32 offer only incremental improvements that aren't going to equate to more profit dollars. As mentioned previously, upgrading to a Midas Pro stage box *might* make a difference you can hear. I, too, have been intrigued by the Wing, but have not taken the leap for what might be a lateral move. Will hold off until there are more in the wild and they have proven themselves.

To get a significantly "better" console will require a much higher investment. The next notch up would be Yamaha QL/CL and A+H dLive.

Dave

[ProSoundWeb Community]