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Author Topic: Replacement for Avid SC48  (Read 2021 times)

Matthias McCready

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Re: Replacement for Avid SC48
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2021, 04:45:14 PM »

I have just spent a few hours looking at the Avantis and C3500.  I believe both are considered under the dLive banner.  The Avantis seems to be significantly cheaper than the C3500, but largely seems to be comparable in specification.  And the screens are bigger on the Avantis.

What makes the C3500 so much more expensive?  What do you get on top of the Avantis?

Also, it looks like out of the box, both seem to only use a single cable between console and stage box.  This seems dangerous with no redundancy.  Is there a way to have a two cable redundant solution.

PS.  I don't really understand the options for digital connectivity yet so any pointers on this would help.  I see Dante, S-Link, Waves, MADI, DX and I don't really understand them so need education on each, what each does, when to use each.  That type of thing.  Are there tutorials on this type of stuff?

Avantis is a different product line than D-Live.

For a more expensive console (something to adequately replace your SC48) one of the main considerations should be how many cards slots does it have?

Cards slots offer additional I/O options that are critical to many applications:

So some typical uses for card slots might be:

1) Dante or Madi might respectively be used to connect to a computer for multitrack recording and playback (more on playback later).
2) Dante for example might be used to connect additional inputs. For example perhaps your church utilizes tracks. For around $40 you can get a copy of Dante Virtual Soundcard which turns your computer into a 64 I/O interface. So over ethernet you could get multiple channels. The nicer Shure wireless units can also pass signal and interface with some consoles to give info (battery life etc).
3) Waves: This is processing, due to heavy lifting your console wouldn't be capable of on its own. I run 64 I/) and use it on most channels.
4) You might be connecting to multiple consoles for monitors or broadcast (there are cards for that) in the same brand or two a different brand might be different communication protocols (ie different cards).
5) You might want path redundancy to your main I/O. A card can offer that.

In this day and age budget allowing I think two is a good place to start; as that allows multitracking and something else. Avantis gives 2x card slots, and D-Live can have up to 5 with their largest S class system I believe.

If you are not familiar with multi tracking this is one of the greatest tools available today, and is an incredibly useful. It is great for training aspiring engineers in a more low pressure environment, it is also great for getting things dialed in. At the church I work at I record rehearsal (knowing the band will play things the same), and then I spend several hours dialing in the mix, and creating appropriate snapshots.

Hopefully that helps you understand card slots and additional I/O. This is one of the factors of the price difference, but there are many more.

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Matthias McCready

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Re: Replacement for Avid SC48
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2021, 06:02:31 PM »

Some differences between A&H Avantis and D-live would be:

Processing Channels: 64 vs 128
Busses: 42 vs 64 (keep in mind in A&H land a bus can be an aux, matrix, group etc)
Card Slots: 2 vs 2-5 (Depending On C class vs S Class)

D-Live is less screen based (more knobs to touch and turn) and has LED metering vs a screen.

D-Live can have (depending on the chosen surface) additional local AES I/O, fibre Ace (with redundancy on some larger models), and redundant power supplies (S Class).

Both have virtual soundcheck mode, 2x insert points (quite useful if running Waves or other additional processing), and offline software.

I am sure there are some-other differences I am missing.

----

I might recommend downloading software for a few of the different consoles you are looking at. That is a good way to become familiar with what one can or cannot do.
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Replacement for Avid SC48
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2021, 10:35:58 PM »

One major distinction between DLive and Avantis is that Avantis is a complete mixer; the C3500 by itself is not a complete mixer.  Think of the C3500 as a big remote controller.  Dlive (and it's predecessor iLive) put the processing in the stage box, not in the surface (the part with screens/knobs/faders).  This gives you flexibility as you can place the stage box on the stage (where the analog & digital I/O is) and run a single network cable to a remote somewhere (FOH, Monitors, etc).  This remote could be a tablet on a Wi-Fi network, it could be a wall-plate control, it could be a laptop, it could be a small or large C-series surface.  Think of it as more of a networked system.

If you already have copper snakes run to FOH, I would expect the Avantis would be a good fit since the I/O is at the surface already and it's a good bit cheaper.

Regarding digital connectivity, there some formats that are specific to one particular manufacturer (AES50 for Behringer/Midas for example; or Slink for A&H) whereas there are others that are more universal (Dante, MADI etc).  The proprietary ones tend to be a little more "plug and play" with minimal setup required, but don't work outside their own universe so to speak.  They also nearly always have control (remote control of a preamp on a remote stage box for example) in addition to audio connectivity. However, these are (mostly) point-to-point (so you have to run a cable directly from one device to another). 

Protocols like Dante are for audio transport only, although control signals can sometimes exist on the same network. Their advantage is that you can use standard network switches/hardware to connect several things together. 

that's a start for now, gotta go eat dinner.
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Jason Raboin

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Re: Replacement for Avid SC48
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2021, 08:09:31 AM »

If rider acceptance isn't a big deal, then I agree with the Avantis suggestions.  It's very easy to use, flexible, and sounds great.  We have 4 in our rental inventory.  I've been pushing them on tours and they seem to like them for one offs.  We had Dinosaur Jr. on them a couple weeks ago.  Ben Harper's FOH mixed a show on one and loved it.

If you need a deeper feature set or more rider acceptance, the Yamaha PM3 is great.  Digico Q 225 also seems to hit the mark.  They are much more money.
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Jason Raboin
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Klondike Sound

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Replacement for Avid SC48
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2021, 08:09:31 AM »


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