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[Ike Zimbel]

Hi Gang,
     My "Cub" frequency counter hasn't been feeling too well lately and before I order another one, I thought I'd ask and see what everyone's using. Ideally I'd like something that gives more information than the Cub, especially when it encounters digital TX's. Here's a link https://www.optoelectronics.com/frequency-counters to the Optoelectronics site, but I'm open to any-and-all suggestions.
Primary use would be quickly verifying / identifying frequencies on ENG gear at media check-in, but I'm open to other functions like tracking down near-field transmits etc.
TIA!
Ike

[Henry Cohen]

Hi Gang,
     My "Cub" frequency counter hasn't been feeling too well lately and before I order another one, I thought I'd ask and see what everyone's using. Ideally I'd like something that gives more information than the Cub, especially when it encounters digital TX's. Here's a link https://www.optoelectronics.com/frequency-counters to the Optoelectronics site, but I'm open to any-and-all suggestions.
Primary use would be quickly verifying / identifying frequencies on ENG gear at media check-in, but I'm open to other functions like tracking down near-field transmits etc.

Whereas my go to frequency counter OEM was Optoelectronics as well, and remains so for analog counting requirements, in today's world of digital emissions their product line is rather dated. Although the Digital Scout will measure TDMA emissions such as DMR (via a fancy peak-hold function), it's not able to measure wideband digital emissions as utilized by wireless mics (and some coms, & IEMs). After some significant time looking, I've not actually found a small, portable, reliable, quick and easy FC that can accurately discern non-pulsed wideband digital emissions (if anyone knows of any viable candidates, please let me know).

So, if measuring digital mics is not needed, Opto's Digital Scout (for measuring DMR or NXDN LMR radios) gets my vote.

[Andrew Broughton]

I'm using the cheap little Surecom SF-401Plus which works fine as a quick-and-dirty "what's that walkie-talkie transmitting on". Not sure if it's high enough quality though for your needs though.


Got it 'cause Peter told me to.
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,166818.msg1538627.html#msg1538627

[Jason Glass]

Hi Gang,
     My "Cub" frequency counter hasn't been feeling too well lately and before I order another one, I thought I'd ask and see what everyone's using. Ideally I'd like something that gives more information than the Cub, especially when it encounters digital TX's. Here's a link https://www.optoelectronics.com/frequency-counters to the Optoelectronics site, but I'm open to any-and-all suggestions.
Primary use would be quickly verifying / identifying frequencies on ENG gear at media check-in, but I'm open to other functions like tracking down near-field transmits etc.
TIA!
Ike

Yeah, digital AM modulations are a real challenge for handheld frequency counters.  I still find my Signal Hound connected to a small windows tablet to be my favorite method of characterizing signals at check-in.  Their spike software makes it really easy to make markers track peaks, center them, and zoom in to see what's really going on with them.  That said, I still do carry and use less expensive and simpler handheld counters for quick and dirty work.

[Tim Verhoeven]

It isn't really a frequency counter (it is also the first time for me that I heard of that type of device), but the tinySA (https://tinysa.org/) could serve the same purpose. It will show you the parameters from the highest signal that is detects. Plus it seems that it can do more then a frequency counter.

[Nathan Grater]

Yeah, digital AM modulations are a real challenge for handheld frequency counters.  I still find my Signal Hound connected to a small windows tablet to be my favorite method of characterizing signals at check-in.  Their spike software makes it really easy to make markers track peaks, center them, and zoom in to see what's really going on with them.  That said, I still do carry and use less expensive and simpler handheld counters for quick and dirty work.

What antenna do you use for your hand held setup with your SA44B? I use a Sennheiser 1031 for most of my work but it would be a little cumbersome to carry around on a tablet.

[Ike Zimbel]

Whereas my go to frequency counter OEM was Optoelectronics as well, and remains so for analog counting requirements, in today's world of digital emissions their product line is rather dated. Although the Digital Scout will measure TDMA emissions such as DMR (via a fancy peak-hold function), it's not able to measure wideband digital emissions as utilized by wireless mics (and some coms, & IEMs). After some significant time looking, I've not actually found a small, portable, reliable, quick and easy FC that can accurately discern non-pulsed wideband digital emissions (if anyone knows of any viable candidates, please let me know).

So, if measuring digital mics is not needed, Opto's Digital Scout (for measuring DMR or NXDN LMR radios) gets my vote.

Thanks for all of the replies. As it turns out, my Cub is as fine as anything that's kicked around at a lot of gigs can be...it was the charger that was having issues. A few years back I was doing RF at a three day festival in Toronto and I found myself crouched on the stage, cutting 4" of the end off the 9v adapter so I could twist the leads together and reverse the polarity to power up some guitar pedals, seconds before the band started. I felt like Meat Loaf in "Roadie" and I remember thinking "Man, it's been a loooong time since I've been in this situation! " This was a many-piece African band, with a German /Nordic sound guy (not exactly sure where he was from, nice guy...). They ended up on my radar because they had no RF , except that their BM was using an X-32, so the WiFi set-up for his iPad was deemed to be my turf. Anyway, my un-doing of that kluge finally gave up and I just had to replace the end with a new connector.

[Ike Zimbel]

Yeah, digital AM modulations are a real challenge for handheld frequency counters.  I still find my Signal Hound connected to a small windows tablet to be my favourite method of characterizing signals at check-in.  Their spike software makes it really easy to make markers track peaks, centre them, and zoom in to see what's really going on with them.  That said, I still do carry and use less expensive and simpler handheld counters for quick and dirty work.

So yesterday, I got a last minute call to go down to Massey Hall and sort out some wireless issues. I had the Cub with me and out of curiosity, I tried it with a couple of Sennheiser EM6000 TX's. I was surprised to see that it "works" to the extent that it will lock on a frequency that's somewhere in the 200 KHz wide haystack. For me that's a pretty good start as it would at least show me where to tune an SA to find the actual, programmed centre frequency (although looking at the display on the device might be just as fast...).

[Russell Ault]

{...} (although looking at the display on the device might be just as fast...).

This is something I'm curious about. I do own a (cheap!) frequency counter, but I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I felt like it was the "right" tool for the job. With almost everything wireless (other than LMRs, I guess) having some kind of a display these days, what do you typically use yours for?

Thanks!

-Russ

[Henry Cohen]

This is something I'm curious about. I do own a (cheap!) frequency counter, but I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I felt like it was the "right" tool for the job. With almost everything wireless (other than LMRs, I guess) having some kind of a display these days, what do you typically use yours for?

If doing sports, political or other events for which a lot of ENG (pro and semi-pro) folk show up, many pros still use older Lectrosonics and Sony gear without a display, or in the case of Sony, a display showing only "group and channel" numbers; not frequency. The punters tend to use the lower end Shure that also do not display frequency. And now the lower end Shure is almost all digital.

[Ike Zimbel]

This is something I'm curious about. I do own a (cheap!) frequency counter, but I don't think I've ever been in a situation where I felt like it was the "right" tool for the job. With almost everything wireless (other than LMRs, I guess) having some kind of a display these days, what do you typically use yours for?

Thanks!

-Russ

A LOT of media folks that show up at the check-in desk are not that up-to-speed on the technical aspects of their RF gear so it's often quicker to just get them to turn it on quickly and use the frequency counter than to get them to hand it over and then start scrolling through menus. That said, if they're that clueless, I'll probably end up tuning it for them anyway if it has to move.
It can sometimes be helpful as an honesty check once someone is on an assigned frequency, too.
And, what Henry said!

[Craig Hauber]

It isn't really a frequency counter (it is also the first time for me that I heard of that type of device), but the tinySA (https://tinysa.org/) could serve the same purpose. It will show you the parameters from the highest signal that is detects. Plus it seems that it can do more then a frequency counter.

This is what I now use.  Just toggle the cursor along the curve and read the number at the peak.  Also useful to see clearly all the harmonics and spurious RF a cheaper transmitter tends to output along with its fundamental. 
For higher resolution than it's tiny (but surprisingly clear) screen, just USB connect to your PC and run its software on that.

[Henry Cohen]

Also useful to see clearly all the harmonics and spurious RF a cheaper transmitter tends to output along with its fundamental.

Just ensure those harmonics and spurious RF on the screen aren't from the SA's input saturating 

[Tim McCulloch]

Just ensure those harmonics and spurious RF on the screen aren't from the SA's input saturating 

So a pad between the SA input and antenna/signal source?  How much attenuation?  /inquiring mind

[Riley Casey]

Thats some serious "show must go on " mojo there Ike.  Not sure I would have sacrificed my PSU for some guitar pedals for the band du jour. Well depends on the band I suppose.

... A few years back I was doing RF at a three day festival in Toronto and I found myself crouched on the stage, cutting 4" of the end off the 9v adapter so I could twist the leads together and reverse the polarity to power up some guitar pedals, seconds before the band started...

[Henry Cohen]

So a pad between the SA input and antenna/signal source?  How much attenuation?  /inquiring mind

In an ideal world the SA manufacturer will specify the "maximum [usable] input", but you should confirm it isn't 'maximum input, no damage", which means the front end could still be saturating, it's just that no damage will occur. All the credible manufacturers (Keysight, Anritsu, Rigol, R&S, Sigent, Signal Hound, TTI, etc.) specify max input as that which is usable, but it's generally for a CW or narrow band digital signal, not wide band digital such as digital wireless mics/IEM's. For digital mics, add 10dB to the rated RF output to be safe when determining if SA input can properly handle the power*.

If unsure, always begin with a 20dB, even 30dB, attenuator between the LPAS device and the SA input until you can see the waveform and signal level vs. scale. FWIW, I generally use attenuators in multiples of 10 in this application just to keep the math simple.

*So now the obvious question is how does one determine the actual RF power output of a wide band digital device. One has to look at channelized power; that power contained within the defined channel bandwidth of the carrier. Thus, as an example, for an Axient Digital mic, the defined channel bandwidth is 185kHz, and, if your SA has a channel power function, you would set the channel power width to the 185kHz.

[ProSoundWeb Community]