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Author Topic: Piano Pickup  (Read 3142 times)

Chris Hindle

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2021, 06:05:14 PM »

Thank you but there is only one more show this year (this Friday) and I'm going to rough it one more time. They will do more in the spring. I may take you up on it then. They're planning on quite a few indoor shows throughout the year so I may just get one and let it live in that piano. I'm also trying to talk them into a large curtain behind the stage area.
Wow. no curtain?
THAT will solve a world of reflection. Monitors bouncing off the back wall and into the audience for example.
Chris.
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Ed Hall

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2021, 07:41:13 PM »

One of my gigs has started doing indoor shows in a very live room with a grand piano.  It kind of hard to gain up mics. Is a Helpistill pickup system worth the price.? HAs anyone here used one?. Do they sound natural?

I was in a similar situation, a grand in a live room. It was the second loudest thing in the room, after the drum kit. I was always mixing the acoustic guitars and vocals up to the drums and piano. We had two 414s under the lid. All sorts of bleed issues and still too loud with it open. We installed a Helpinstill and closed the lid and it made a significant improvement. It did take some time playing with placement to get it right; but, worth the effort. I recommend it.
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Darin Ulmer

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2021, 08:01:31 PM »

We provide for a pianist (backed by an orchestra and singers) for a Christmas tour and have used the Helpinstill for around 12 years, being on a different concert piano each show.  Some things we have learned: first, placement is key, it is very easy to emulate a Rhodes and that is not what you want! Use three DI's instead of the little mixer so that you have better control over the instrument.  We purchased a second of the longer pickups because different pianos have different soundboard curves and getting the final few notes and transitions can be a challenge with the three that come in the package.  Plus, there must be a little overlap as the pickups do not work well in the final 3/4" or so. 

We also use a mic, usually on the second hole, (the pianist doesn't want any mics visible) and at FOH I use as much mic as possible, while the monitor is entirely the pickup.  (He likes it quite loud!)  The bass pickup is great, but overdone it will sound unnatural.  Also, watch out for thumps from the pumping of the sustain pedal being picked up by the Helpinstill.  Verb on the top two pickups, but not usually the bass.

The pickup provides for a lot of control and isolation, especially on busy numbers where the orchestra is going all out, but on solo numbers, where the monitors are muted, the mic provides a much more natural sound.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2021, 08:17:19 PM »

The only time I've heard a Helpinstill sound good was when Charlie "Ezra" Helpinstill played at my venue. He plays under the name Ezra Charles since he sold the name Helpinstill when he sold the patent.

Charlie had a 5 foot grand with his own pickup and the bottom two octaves were midi triggered so he could play bass with his left hand. All of this was perched on a turntable which he controlled with a foot pedal. He would always hire good looking female horn players out of the University of Texas' marching band. Guy knew how to put on a show, I can tell you that.

He'd sing a verse facing the audience, then spin around and watch the horn players take a ride, then spin back around and sing the chorus, etc. Always a fun time.
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Steven Cohen

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2021, 06:52:41 AM »

One of my gigs has started doing indoor shows in a very live room with a grand piano.  It kind of hard to gain up mics. Is a Helpistill pickup system worth the price.? HAs anyone here used one?. Do they sound natural?

DPA 4099Ps work in just about every situation for us. They deploy quickly, they sound natural, work with any lid position, and mostly "just work" without much fuss at the console.

Over the years, BEs have brought in C-Ducers, Helpistills, Large capsule condensers, small capsule condensers, etc. While some of these solutions worked, they took a long time to deploy, EQ, and some did not sound natural. The DPAs are the best solution we have used. The DPAs will work up to crazy loud stages. After that point, we use SM57s.   
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Kemper Watson

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2021, 06:29:02 AM »

DPA 4099Ps work in just about every situation for us. They deploy quickly, they sound natural, work with any lid position, and mostly "just work" without much fuss at the console.

Over the years, BEs have brought in C-Ducers, Helpistills, Large capsule condensers, small capsule condensers, etc. While some of these solutions worked, they took a long time to deploy, EQ, and some did not sound natural. The DPAs are the best solution we have used. The DPAs will work up to crazy loud stages. After that point, we use SM57s.

I can't afford DPA right now because I just bought an Earthworks kit. Will the DM 20's work as well?. I may try them next time. I was using C214.
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Riley Casey

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2021, 05:09:24 PM »

The Earthworks excel at high quality pick up of the source. They don't in my experience excel at high gain before feedback when compared to some other solutions but then I don't have as much experience with the purpose built Earthworks piano mic set up.

I can't afford DPA right now because I just bought an Earthworks kit. Will the DM 20's work as well?. I may try them next time. I was using C214.

Kemper Watson

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2021, 06:50:32 AM »

Wow. no curtain?
THAT will solve a world of reflection. Monitors bouncing off the back wall and into the audience for example.
Chris.

I'm buying a backdrop before the next series of shows. 40 ft of fire rated velour pipe n drape
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Steven Cohen

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2021, 09:45:07 AM »

I can't afford DPA right now because I just bought an Earthworks kit. Will the DM 20's work as well?. I may try them next time. I was using C214.

I don't have any experience with the DM 20s but its worth trying.

One thing about the DPA 4099 series is that they are designed for many different types of instrument uses. The 4099 series comes is many different models with the main difference being the mounting type boom and bracket or magnet. They even have one for an accordion!

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/instrument/4099-instrument-microphone

A quick comparison of Earthworks PM40 (piano mic) and the DM20 (drum mic) shows two completely different mic capsule specifications. Not saying the DM 20 will not work on a grand piano, if just was not designed for that purpose. 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 09:50:04 AM by Steven Cohen »
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2021, 09:53:10 AM »

If the DPA's are out of budget, check out the ATM350 from AT. They are a very solid alternative to the DPA. The only thing is a higher self noise, or worse S/N ratio. But unless you really need to gain them up high you don't notice it. In a piano wouldn't be an issue. It's only an issue when you are trying to mic a mouse fart.

They also have a neat magnetic base which is awesome for the piano.
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Bullwinkle: This is the amplifier, which amplifies the sound. This is the Preamplifier which, of course, amplifies the pree's.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Piano Pickup
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2021, 09:53:10 AM »


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